Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

[kateighty]

Wowzers! Thanks Scott for being honest. I think you're on point. I'll leave it at that.

Here's a link to the UCC by state if anyone wants to check it out: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_ucc

[swarmee]

eBay is a worldwide website. I'm sure nobody bids in their auctions from any of the states that don't specifically allow bidding on your own auctions. Does their definition agree with the eBay Terms of Service?

[CuriousGeorge]

How would anyone feel if their cards were sitting in "The Vault" right now? To you lawyers out there, could those cards be seized as evidence?

[drcy]

Originally Posted by sayheykid54

This past weekend I noticed a nice Ty Cobb pin PWCC was selling. Based on the craziness surrounding PWCC lately, it made me look a lot closer at the pin. I noticed that the back rim was an untarnished brighter silver in appearance. Thoughts on the pin? Am I being paranoid??

I decided NOT to bid on the auction.

I don't know of the sale, but rust and corrosion is what you look for on the back on antique pins because it's a sign of authenticity. A shinney backed 1880s-1910s tobacco pin would be out of the ordinary.

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

How would anyone feel if their cards were sitting in "The Vault" right now? To you lawyers out there, could those cards be seized as evidence?

I'd never put my cards in "The Vault" to begin with but I can only hope they'd be seized as evidence. The sooner they can figure this out the better.

[trambo]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

So some of the old listings that vcp basically links to supposedly had back scans deleted, and now the mob wants to throw vcp into the fire with pwcc, but not PSA. I don't see any evidence Bobby or VCP did anything wrong. Calls to cancel vcp subscriptions seem ridiculous to me.

Agree w/you! Not everything is a conspiracy. I appreciate Bobby of VCP being on this board and explaining what happened to him and his business. I could be a fool later but the responses make sense to me! No reason to cancel anything except a PWCC bid at this point!

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

How would anyone feel if their cards were sitting in "The Vault" right now? To you lawyers out there, could those cards be seized as evidence?

Originally Posted by swarmee

eBay is a worldwide website. I'm sure nobody bids in their auctions from any of the states that don't specifically allow bidding on your own auctions. Does their definition agree with the eBay Terms of Service?

I closed my eBay store (we focused primarily on rare books) twice in the last two years and eBay and PayPal are still saying we owe $11. Years later. They're a hot mess.

[swarmee]

I'll give Bobby the benefit of the doubt. I don't use his website and don't know if those images were there to begin with. Thanks for answering the questions; I was just the messenger.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

This investigation will focus on PWCC, Brent Huigens, Gary Moser and now Bobby Binder at VCP, who foolishly got himself involved with his implausible eBay story. The good news Bobby is we won’t be the ones you need to convince so start compiling those emails from eBay because I suspect you’re going to need them soon.

I think you missed a rather key player... the people who authenticated all of this crap.

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I'll give Bobby the benefit of the doubt. I don't use his website and don't know if those images were there to begin with. Thanks for answering the questions; I was just the messenger.

I noticed many of the images on VCP, both front and back disappeared when PWCC setup their own "history" section of their website. Maybe they moved images around or renamed them and the software VCP uses lost track of them. This was last year I think. I don't know how the software works.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I think you missed a rather key player... the people who authenticated all of this crap.

+1

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by trambo

Agree w/you! Not everything is a conspiracy. I appreciate Bobby of VCP being on this board and explaining what happened to him and his business. I could be a fool later but the responses make sense to me! No reason to cancel anything except a PWCC bid at this point!

Troy, I wouldn’t go so far to call you a fool, but let’s see how you feel when Bobby and VCP are proven not to be telling the truth. I just feel badly Bobby allowed himself to unnecessarily become apart of this but I will have to assume his relationship with Brent trumped common sense.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

People are all over PSA and BGS. You don't have your eyes open, apparently. You're talking jibberish. I mean the post just 5 ahead of yours pointed out a boycott of PSA and BGS graded cards. Are we supposed to take you seriously.

You should read some of the other posts. And yes always take me seriously. Unless I'm joking.

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I think you missed a rather key player... the people who authenticated all of this crap.

I suspect it will start with Brent and Moser because that is the simplest to prove. Then they will decide if they will roll on any of the PSA guys to save their own skin as much as they possibly can.

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

I suspect it will start with Brent and Moser because that is the simplest to prove. Then they will decide if they will roll on any of the PSA guys to save their own skin as much as they possibly can.

The PSA guys have been horrible and nasty to me at the Philly Show. And I have names. I would like to write about it I don't want another call from Leon!

[ullmandds]

Check out this gem!

At this point I am sure I have altered cards in my collection makes me want to vomit!

http://www.sportscardradio.com/gary-...-bidding-scam/

[Peter_Spaeth]

Does PSA still formally claim that multiple graders review each card? I am sure they did at one point.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Check out this gem!

At this point I am sure I have altered cards in my collection makes me want to vomit!

http://www.sportscardradio.com/gary-...-bidding-scam/

We've been discussing that for hours my friend.

[CMIZ5290]

I want to add this because everyone seems to be singling out PSA. I think this activity also goes on with SGC.....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by kateighty

The PSA guys have been horrible and nasty to me at the Philly Show. And I have names. I would like to write about it I don't want another call from Leon!

We look forward to this. You won't have an issue with Leon.

[trambo]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Troy, I wouldn’t go so far to call you a fool, but let’s see how you feel when Bobby and VCP are proven not to be telling the truth. I just feel badly Bobby allowed himself to unnecessarily become apart of this but I will have to assume his relationship with Brent trumped common sense.

I'd hope you wouldn't call me or anyone else a fool and we can certainly agree to disagree but when all of this is sorted out, I'm happy to say I'm wrong if I am just as I hope you are.

No doubt there's some bad stuff happening here but it's likely not at the feet of VCP. With the explanations given by VCP on this thread, I just can't see why the VCP people would risk all of their business for something which is likely rounding to the P&L statement. All of the explanations seem reasonable to me but I can appreciate not everyone shares my viewpoint. We'll see what happens!

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

We've been discussing that for hours my friend.

I was weeding!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by trambo

I'd hope you wouldn't call me or anyone else a fool and we can certainly agree to disagree but when all of this is sorted out, I'm happy to say I'm wrong if I am just as I hope you are.

No doubt there's some bad stuff happening here but it's likely not at the feet of VCP. With the explanations given by VCP on this thread, I just can't see why the VCP people would risk all of their business for something which is likely rounding to the P&L statement. All of the explanations seem reasonable to me but I can appreciate not everyone shares my viewpoint. We'll see what happens!

I don't know the tech side of it but I don't see any glaring holes in Bobby's explanations either. Are people saying he somehow sabotaged only one seller's scans, only their back scans, and only for certain years? And all to aid in the coverup of fraud?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I was weeding!

A good metaphor for some of this, hopefully.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I was weeding!

Is that what they're calling it these days? We used to say we were pulling BH's.

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't know the tech side of it but I don't see any glaring holes in Bobby's explanations either. Are people saying he somehow sabotaged only one seller's scans, only their back scans, and only for certain years?

PWCC created a sales history section on their own website last year (Market history?). I noticed that when they did this some of the older PWCC scans that were on VCP went blank. I specifically recall this because I thought PWCC might be trying to take some of VCP's business for itself. It could be that when PWCC added the new section the location of the scan files changed and they were cut off from VCP software? There seems to be a couple of people who want the scan removal to be a conspiracy though.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I support this sentiment. I certainly won't be bidding on any more PWCC listings and I won't be buying any more PSA or BGS (let's not forget BGS has a huge part in this too) graded items. I guess I'll have to wait for a real TPG competitor to arrive and have my PC stuff regraded someday. Hopefully none are altered, but that's now unlikely. I don't have a VCP sub, but I wouldn't do any business with anyone with ties to this situation (I don't have business interactions with Leon, so don't even try it), especially after seeing the proprietor's deflection attempts. Playing dumb doesn't work. You know darn well what's happening within your own business, down to every little detail.

you my friends are absolutely correct. I won't be bidding on any baseball cards PERIOD

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

you my friends are absolutely correct. I won't be bidding on any baseball cards PERIOD

Will you be refraining from posting here?

[CMIZ5290]

Meanwhile......Brent and R.P. are laughing all the way to the bank...

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by sayheykid54

This past weekend I noticed a nice Ty Cobb pin PWCC was selling. Based on the craziness surrounding PWCC lately, it made me look a lot closer at the pin. I noticed that the back rim was an untarnished brighter silver in appearance. Thoughts on the pin? Am I being paranoid??

I decided NOT to bid on the auction.

No, it's probably fake.. like the signed Jordan Jersey.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Meanwhile......Brent and R.P. are laughing all the way to the bank...

For now. So too were Bill and Doug, I suspect.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For now. So too were Bill and Doug, I suspect.

With the slap on the wrist Bill got I bet he is still laughing, I know I would be.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Will you be refraining from posting here?

Unfortunately, not

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Unfortunately, not

lol

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Leon]

Your name is out here. Say what you want to. No more calls from me unless it is to talk cards.

Originally Posted by kateighty

The PSA guys have been horrible and nasty to me at the Philly Show. And I have names. I would like to write about it I don't want another call from Leon!

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Meanwhile......Brent and R.P. are laughing all the way to the bank...

No one is laughing.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I was weeding!

Is that legal in Minnesota now?

[vintagewhitesox]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Hahahahaha!!! Now they're trying to redefine shill bidding. If you bid on your OWN FREAKING CARD, it's shill bidding.


Yikes.

You can't change the definition of a commonly accepted term to avoid liability; criminal or civil.
"your honor, I define murder as death by shooting. I only stabbed him 47 times."

This is beyond absurd. these people need to stop talking.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Is that legal in Minnesota now?

no frank...not yet!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagewhitesox

You can't change the definition of a commonly accepted term to avoid liability; criminal or civil.
"your honor, I define murder as death by shooting. I only stabbed him 47 times."

This is beyond absurd. these people need to stop talking.

It's entertaining when they do, though.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

Again for the 3rd time....
We did not remove or delete any images.

Bobby, VCP still has my total support. You guys are hands down the best price guide out there and I find your service extremely helpful and valuable.

[BobbyVCP]

So after a very long day and some lengthy conversations we have been given the go ahead for now to start posting the buyer coded information once again.

So now I see that I have conspired to remove back images with PWCC to match up with his historical data in his Market Price Research deal. That is very laughable, what do I get to gain from any of it?

Believe me when they launched that along with PSA launching theres as well did not make us feel too good. But you know what having all that data is great, the important part is what you do with that data. And what VCP does with the data is far superior.

[bounce]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

Again for the 3rd time....
We did not remove or delete any images.

I'm showing that the links to the prior auctions now only go back roughly 6 months, to December 2018.

Pretty sure last weekend there were links to all the prior auctions. I definitely know it went further back than December 2018 for auction houses like REA, Heritage, Memory Lane, etc. I honestly can't recall if the eBay auction links went back further than that, but I sort of recall that they did.

Something changed in regard to that, no?

[Kenny Cole]

I'm out on PWCC. Already passed on some cards pretty high on my want list. Stuff certainly doesn't trump all for me, particularly if I think there is an issue with regard to legitimacy. Hopefully others will make the same decision. It is beyond clear, at least to me, that they are dirty.

I've never personally submitted a single card to PSA so that's not an issue for me. I had a friend submit 4, all of which ironically came back as an A. Guess I didn't know the right people and I thought they were dead wrong on at least 2, but I still sold them as A's. I was previously a SGC guy but quit that when the Mastro shill list came out and Forman was on it. Haven't submitted to SGC since.

I am currently withholding judgment and watching carefully (and hopefully thoughtfully) about what is purportedly going on with VCP. I will make that decision when I think I have enough evidence. I'm not there yet.

[BobbyVCP]

Originally Posted by bounce

I'm showing that the links to the prior auctions now only go back roughly 6 months, to December 2018.

Pretty sure last weekend there were links to all the prior auctions. I definitely know it went further back than December 2018 for auction houses like REA, Heritage, Memory Lane, etc. I honestly can't recall if the eBay auction links went back further than that, but I sort of recall that they did.

Something changed in regard to that, no?

Ebay links expire on VCP when they expire in eBay usually about 90 days. We did not change anything there just put back the buyers coded name again

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bounce

I'm showing that the links to the prior auctions now only go back roughly 6 months, to December 2018.

Pretty sure last weekend there were links to all the prior auctions. I definitely know it went further back than December 2018 for auction houses like REA, Heritage, Memory Lane, etc. I honestly can't recall if the eBay auction links went back further than that, but I sort of recall that they did.

Something changed in regard to that, no?

I just checked a random card and it goes back to 2006. Not sure what you are seeing. The links themselves never went back very far I don't think.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's entertaining when they do, though.

Let them talk, then the hole gets deeper!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Let them talk, then the whole gets deeper!

Who on earth is advising them.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Perhaps we can help make SGC GREAT AGAIN!!!!! MSGA!!!!!!!

+1

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

No one is laughing.

I'm laughing.

I find this entire thread incredibly funny.

The people who get paid for their opinions are just going to slide down in their cellar and wait for the storm to blow over, then back to business as usual.

Doug "everybody gets exactly what they pay for" Goodman