Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

[jad22]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2204

Amazing.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by jad22

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2204

Amazing.

This one should make anyone who collects T206 cards sick. This is a gut punch.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Good golly Miss Molly.

[ullmandds]

Holy moly...doyle may be next.

[kateighty]

This is all a lot to keep up with but also part of why I came back to the board. I'm very rarely on BO but what's posted over there has been helpful. In talking to Leon yesterday many of us seem to be in the same boat in hoping our cards weren't involved in this mess. Any chance we could have a specific members only thread somewhat like the BST to solely share pics/links to the pre-war cards involved in all of this? Could be a good first step in narrowing things down on the pre-war side. I mean, for us, the difference between a 3 changed to a 4 is a big deal. Thoughts?

[Buythatcard]

I noticed that Moser won a Johnny Lipon 53 Bowman Color from me back in 11/2018. So, I wanted to see if I can find out whether he resold it at a later date. I didn't find it but I stumbled onto this.
On 12/15/18, he won a PSA 6 version of that card at Probstein's. Click on "View Original Item".

https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/362502649...2047675.l10137

Then I saw on May 9th 2019, an 8.5 version of this card sold at PWCC. Click on "View Original Item".


https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/352652489...2047675.l10137

What makes me believe that they are the same card, is the stain on the back. It's on the bottom of the card just below Printed in U.S.A and running up into the stats.

If I am correct, then it's not only high end cards that we need to worry about.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

If I am correct, then it's not only high end cards that we need to worry about.

There are A LOT of mid-grade cards being outed on BO as altered. You can’t hide behind a decision to collect only PSA 3s and 4s and think you’re safe.

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://www.sportscardradio.com/gary-...-bidding-scam/

Among other things, claims Gary shill bid his own consignments. Pretty comprehensive in scope.

[swarmee]

Hahahahaha!!! Now they're trying to redefine shill bidding. If you bid on your OWN FREAKING CARD, it's shill bidding.

PWCC Betsy Huigens, however, did add, "It is worth mentioning that in our definition, a 'shill bid' is a bid placed in falsehood without intention of being honored. Shill bidding is something we monitor and manage carefully and we don’t have any experience of shill bidding as you describe tied to this person (Moser)."

Yikes.

[swarmee]

And if PSA wants to have any more of my business, EVERY CARD SUBMITTED BY THESE DOCTORS needs to be removed from the certification system and refunded.

[Republicaninmass]

"A shill bid is a bid placed with no intent to honor "


Wrong again

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

And if PSA wants to have any more of my business, EVERY CARD SUBMITTED BY THESE DOCTORS needs to be removed from the certification system and refunded.

Unfortunately most of the other doctors left little or no paper trail, IMO. BO has named a few guys but it goes well well well beyond them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Sports Card Radio was provided data of a recent 225 card PSA submission submitted by, or on the behalf of, Moser.

135 of those cards were placed in the PWCC Marketplace 2019 Premium Auction #3.

An eBay account associated with Moser, whitman111, placed a bid on 31 of the 135 cards submitted, resulting in two winning bids.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's like hitting the daily double, winning an altered card that was shill bid.

[jad22]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Hahahahaha!!! Now they're trying to redefine shill bidding. If you bid on your OWN FREAKING CARD, it's shill bidding.


Yikes.

That is totally unreal. Redefining everything these days.

[vintagewhitesox]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Hahahahaha!!! Now they're trying to redefine shill bidding. If you bid on your OWN FREAKING CARD, it's shill bidding.


Yikes.

You can't change the definition of a commonly accepted term to avoid liability; criminal or civil.
"your honor, I define murder as death by shooting. I only stabbed him 47 times."

This is beyond absurd. these people need to stop talking.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagewhitesox

You can't change the definition of a commonly accepted term to avoid liability; criminal or civil.
"your honor, I define murder as death by shooting. I only stabbed him 47 times."

This is beyond absurd. these people need to stop talking.

It's entertaining when they do, though.

[GoCubsGo32]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

http://www.sportscardradio.com/gary-...-bidding-scam/

Among other things, claims Gary shill bid his own consignments. Pretty comprehensive in scope.

crazy...

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I noticed that Moser won a Johnny Lipon 53 Bowman Color from me back in 11/2018. So, I wanted to see if I can find out whether he resold it at a later date. I didn't find it but I stumbled onto this.
On 12/15/18, he won a PSA 6 version of that card at Probstein's. Click on "View Original Item".

https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/362502649...2047675.l10137

Then I saw on May 9th 2019, an 8.5 version of this card sold at PWCC. Click on "View Original Item".


https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/352652489...2047675.l10137

What makes me believe that they are the same card, is the stain on the back. It's on the bottom of the card just below Printed in U.S.A and running up into the stats.

If I am correct, then it's not only high end cards that we need to worry about.

Unless I'm completely ignorant regarding how the serial numbers work on the slabbed cards, I'd say you are not correct. The PSA 8.5 has a lower serial number than the PSA 6. So based on your evidence it appears the PSA 8.5 was broken out of its slab, sent to PSA to be graded again, and was given a 6. And that is something to be worried about? Am I missing something here?

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

Unless I'm completely ignorant regarding how the serial numbers work on the slabbed cards, I'd say you are not correct. The PSA 8.5 has a lower serial number than the PSA 6. So based on your evidence it appears the PSA 8.5 was broken out of its slab, sent to PSA to be graded again, and was given a 6. And that is something to be worried about? Am I missing something here?

Edit - This may not be the same card.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

Unless I'm completely ignorant regarding how the serial numbers work on the slabbed cards, I'd say you are not correct. The PSA 8.5 has a lower serial number than the PSA 6. So based on your evidence it appears the PSA 8.5 was broken out of its slab, sent to PSA to be graded again, and was given a 6. And that is something to be worried about? Am I missing something here?

While each submission goes in numerical order, two orders next to each other may be vastly different.

[BengoughingForAwhile]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I noticed that Moser won a Johnny Lipon 53 Bowman Color from me back in 11/2018. So, I wanted to see if I can find out whether he resold it at a later date. I didn't find it but I stumbled onto this.
On 12/15/18, he won a PSA 6 version of that card at Probstein's. Click on "View Original Item".

https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/362502649...2047675.l10137

Then I saw on May 9th 2019, an 8.5 version of this card sold at PWCC. Click on "View Original Item".


https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/352652489...2047675.l10137

What makes me believe that they are the same card, is the stain on the back. It's on the bottom of the card just below Printed in U.S.A and running up into the stats.

If I am correct, then it's not only high end cards that we need to worry about.

They're different cards, even though the stain you mention is very similar. The defects in the red area on the back just below the No. 123 white baseball diamond are very different on each card.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by BengoughingForAwhile

They're different cards, even though the stain you mention is very similar. The defects in the red area on the back just below the No. 123 white baseball diamond are very different on each card.

Thanks. It was already pointed out to me by another member. I jumped the gun on that one.

[BengoughingForAwhile]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Thanks. It was already pointed out to me by another member. I jumped the gun on that one.

Darn it Howard, I thought you had one!
If not for my recent training in "cardboard forensics" by 312, Corndog and Superdan on the BO forum I would have agreed with you!