Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have no idea what to think.

Ummm...yes, you do. You just don't want to admit it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Ummm...yes, you do. You just don't want to admit it.

David, do you believe David Hall, Joe Orlando and/or Steve Sloan have overtly or tacitly approved the knowing grading of altered cards, or do you think some submitters have a grader on the inside?

Let's flesh out your conspiracy theory.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

David, do you believe David Hall, Joe Orlando and/or Steve Sloan have overtly or tacitly approved the knowing grading of altered cards, or do you think some submitters have a grader on the inside?

Let's flesh out your conspiracy theory.

The latter.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The latter.

At this point, it truly would not surprise me. In a way it would be a relief, as it would show the company as a whole wasn't as awful at this as it now is starting to seem.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At this point, it truly would not surprise me. In a way it would be a relief, as it would show the company as a whole wasn't as awful at this as it now is starting to seem.

I doubt it's just one person inside. If it was, how do they assure that their inside guy gets their submission. If anything, it has to be at least two, one in receiving and one grader.

And if there's a pattern of one person always doing one customers submissions, what does it say about their internal security if that's not noticed?

[jad22]

Originally Posted by steve B

I doubt it's just one person inside. If it was, how do they assure that their inside guy gets their submission. If anything, it has to be at least two, one in receiving and one grader.

And if there's a pattern of one person always doing one customers submissions, what does it say about their internal security if that's not noticed?

Don't they do grading at shows? It could be the same guy.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by jad22

Don't they do grading at shows? It could be the same guy.

I don't know about PSA, but when I had some done at a show by SGC the grader/graders weren't in the booth, but somewhere else. I never got to see them work, or even see them at all.
The handful of expensive stuff I had done rather than mail it was all very simple gradings. A few "A" cards, a 10/1, and one that got a pretty generous 40.

Some of the submissions shown on BO are pretty big, 100+ cards. Do they do subs that big at a show, or just accept them for later grading?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The latter.

Me too....

[joshuanip]

I hope the industry (TPG, auctioners, etc) response will lift us above this to put us in a better spot at the end of the day.

The hobby is too big for there not to be a measured response; its make or break and their mouse trap is threatened.... I think they will build a better mousetrap to re-instill confidence in our hobby at the end of the day.

The fact that we have this forum and BO to identify bad players and force the hands of TPGs to prevent their name from being besmirched, makes me think we will come out better from this.....

[CuriousGeorge]

This investigation will focus on PWCC, Brent Huigens, Gary Moser and now Bobby Binder at VCP, who foolishly got himself involved with his implausible eBay story. The good news Bobby is we won’t be the ones you need to convince so start compiling those emails from eBay because I suspect you’re going to need them soon.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

This investigation will focus on PWCC, Brent Huigens, Gary Moser and now Bobby Binder at VCP, who foolishly got himself involved with his implausible eBay story. The good news Bobby is we won’t be the ones you need to convince so start compiling those emails from eBay because I suspect you’re going to need them soon.

I think you missed a rather key player... the people who authenticated all of this crap.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I think you missed a rather key player... the people who authenticated all of this crap.

+1

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I think you missed a rather key player... the people who authenticated all of this crap.

I suspect it will start with Brent and Moser because that is the simplest to prove. Then they will decide if they will roll on any of the PSA guys to save their own skin as much as they possibly can.

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

I suspect it will start with Brent and Moser because that is the simplest to prove. Then they will decide if they will roll on any of the PSA guys to save their own skin as much as they possibly can.

The PSA guys have been horrible and nasty to me at the Philly Show. And I have names. I would like to write about it I don't want another call from Leon!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Does PSA still formally claim that multiple graders review each card? I am sure they did at one point.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by kateighty

The PSA guys have been horrible and nasty to me at the Philly Show. And I have names. I would like to write about it I don't want another call from Leon!

We look forward to this. You won't have an issue with Leon.

[Leon]

Your name is out here. Say what you want to. No more calls from me unless it is to talk cards.

Originally Posted by kateighty

The PSA guys have been horrible and nasty to me at the Philly Show. And I have names. I would like to write about it I don't want another call from Leon!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Believe it or not Betsy is technically correct with her definition of shilling. An owner is allowed to bid on his or her items in most, if not all states, as long as they pay if and when they win. Now many auction houses (including mine) see the ethical flaw in the law, especially as it pertains to online auctions. Hell Ebay won't let you bid on your own offerings. If you don't believe me check the UCC I believe it's somewhere around 235. Peter and I discussed this a couple years back and he was surprised to see it in black and white as I recall. Of course the gulf between legal and ethical can be a wide one...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Believe it or not Betsy is technically correct with her definition of shilling. An owner is allowed to bid on his or her items in most, if not all states, as long as they pay if and when they win. Now many auction houses (including mine) see the ethical flaw in the law, especially as it pertains to online auctions. Hell Ebay won't let you bid on your own offerings. If you don't believe me check the UCC I believe it's somewhere around 235. Peter and I discussed this a couple years back and he was surprised to see it in black and white as I recall. Of course the gulf between legal and ethical can be a wide one...

Scott I recall a discussion about retracting that surprised me but you may well be right we discussed this too.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Crap you're right, it was retracting (a related subject to be sure), however having had to study this stuff specifically to get my license I'm sure I could track down this info too!

[kateighty]

Wowzers! Thanks Scott for being honest. I think you're on point. I'll leave it at that.

Here's a link to the UCC by state if anyone wants to check it out: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_ucc

[swarmee]

eBay is a worldwide website. I'm sure nobody bids in their auctions from any of the states that don't specifically allow bidding on your own auctions. Does their definition agree with the eBay Terms of Service?

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

How would anyone feel if their cards were sitting in "The Vault" right now? To you lawyers out there, could those cards be seized as evidence?

Originally Posted by swarmee

eBay is a worldwide website. I'm sure nobody bids in their auctions from any of the states that don't specifically allow bidding on your own auctions. Does their definition agree with the eBay Terms of Service?

I closed my eBay store (we focused primarily on rare books) twice in the last two years and eBay and PayPal are still saying we owe $11. Years later. They're a hot mess.

[CuriousGeorge]

How would anyone feel if their cards were sitting in "The Vault" right now? To you lawyers out there, could those cards be seized as evidence?

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

How would anyone feel if their cards were sitting in "The Vault" right now? To you lawyers out there, could those cards be seized as evidence?

I'd never put my cards in "The Vault" to begin with but I can only hope they'd be seized as evidence. The sooner they can figure this out the better.