Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

[BobbyVCP]

I am not on these boards very often as you all know. I have never even heard of Blowout before and the evidence is overwhelming. My question though and I could not find an answer anywhere is why are they going after PWCC and not PSA? Some of these cards are so obviously trimmed it looks like 1/8th of inch was taken off at least. Do the graders at PSA not even bother to measure cards? So why off with PWCC's head and not after PSA for letting so many of these blatantly doctored cards get graded? I don't even see any mention of PSA doing anything wrong...

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

I am not on these boards very often as you all know. I have never even heard of Blowout before and the evidence is overwhelming. My question though and I could not find an answer anywhere is why are they going after PWCC and not PSA? Some of these cards are so obviously trimmed it looks like 1/8th of inch was taken off at least. Do the graders at PSA not even bother to measure cards? So why off with PWCC's head and not after PSA for letting so many of these blatantly doctored cards get graded? I don't even see any mention of PSA doing anything wrong...

You didn't look hard enough. There is debate whether it's complicity or incompetence, and some people even want to deflect ALL the blame to PSA, but nobody is giving them a pass as far as I know.

[BobbyVCP]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

You didn't look hard enough. There is debate whether it's complicity or incompetence, and some people even want to deflect ALL the blame to PSA, but nobody is giving them a pass as far as I know.

Seems to me all the pitchforks and torches are headed to PWCC

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

Seems to me all the pitchforks and torches are headed to PWCC

Overt fraud is more interesting than probable negligence.

[BobbyVCP]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Overt fraud is more interesting than probable negligence.

So they are claiming that PWCC knew that the cards that got graded by PSA were in fact tainted? Seems like a stretch..

Sorry if it has been covered just trying to wrap my head around the whole thing.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

So they are claiming that PWCC knew that the cards that got graded by PSA were in fact tainted? Seems like a stretch..

Sorry if it has been covered just trying to wrap my head around the whole thing.

It's been covered ad nauseum, and it's not a stretch at all given what's been uncovered, there's no shortcut for reading it.

[Bigdaddy]

Billy Martin, July 24, 1978, speaking about George and Reggie:

"One's a born liar, the other's convicted"

As relevant today as it was then??

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

So they are claiming that PWCC knew that the cards that got graded by PSA were in fact tainted? Seems like a stretch..

Sorry if it has been covered just trying to wrap my head around the whole thing.

It's a lot to digest Bobby, I know. I am seeing the same thing. The detectives over there are uncovering MASSIVE amounts of cards that have been doctored. To the degree that I am totally dumbfounded and sickened at the amount of deception that one person in particular has bestowed upon us.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

It's a lot to digest Bobby, I know. I am seeing the same thing. The detectives over there are uncovering MASSIVE amounts of cards that have been doctored. To the degree that I am totally dumbfounded and sickened at the amount of deception that one person in particular has bestowed upon us.

Cliffnotes version: Card doctor buys cards from PWCC, doctors them, PWCC submits them for him raw, then sells them in higher slabs. Over and over and over again, and they're just starting over there.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

Seems to me all the pitchforks and torches are headed to PWCC

He's the guy that is spinning cards in and out of the holders by having his buddies bidding HIGH HIGH HIGH on his cards or not and then trimming the S*** out of them soaking them spooning, stretching and dipping in chemicals. Then he turns them all in to PSA for them to grade and PSA is most likely giving him preferential treatment or taking money or completely incompetent, which is possible. AND THEY ARE making millions conserving cards. FOR a LONG LONG TIME. That's why Bobby.

Did Brent Mastro buy your site and shut it down or did Brent Mastro complain to E-BAY that Moser's E-bay Identity was compromised and then shut you down?

THAT's WHY. He's the RING leader, your advertiser. IMHO.
When you lie in bed with snakes, sometimes things like this happen.

I appreciate your site and used it to research my 52 Mantle purchase. Thank you. It was not PSA. I hope you are not out of business now? That does suck. Sorry.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

My question though and I could not find an answer anywhere is why are they going after PWCC and not PSA? Some of these cards are so obviously trimmed it looks like 1/8th of inch was taken off at least. Do the graders at PSA not even bother to measure cards? So why off with PWCC's head and not after PSA for letting so many of these blatantly doctored cards get graded? I don't even see any mention of PSA doing anything wrong...

The bottom line is people have too much money tied up in their PSA graded cards. They don't want to see PSA become another GAI, which could happen before all this is over. It's easier to deflect it to PWCC. I hope PSA falls big time and its reflected in the value of their cards.

[swarmee]

Brent is also the one putting his foot in his mouth repeatedly both by trying to redefine "conservation" vs. "alteration" and doing that ill-advised hourlong interview to explain just how much he's working to out all the fraud, and will never work with card doctors "again." Except the cards are still for sale in PWCC auctions.

Have you seen my new signature block on both sites? PSA deserves a bunch of the blame, but PWCC is trying to be a mouthpiece for the industry and we are the ones that "have to mature." All the while, a million dollars of fraud is going through his auctions almost exclusively. I haven't seen a statement from him/Betsy in days, and haven't received a response to my email to Steve Sloan or Betsy in two weeks.

All that, and one of the main BODA guys is promising fireworks coming up. My bet's on the 1993 SP Derek Jeters that have sold recently for $100K through PWCC and disappeared off of their website during their website glitch. Although it looks like maybe another fraudster has been uncovered.

Your website losing critical functionality at this point in the online investigation just looks "hinky," as Velma would say. Who else would have the pull to get eBay to censor you except for a dealer like PWCC?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The bottom line is people have too much money tied up in their PSA graded cards. They don't want to see PSA become another GAI, which could happen before all this is over. It's easier to deflect it to PWCC. I hope PSA falls big time and its reflected in the value of their cards.

+1 They have been a joke since the beginning.

If SGC could just get off their lazy asses and actually do something this could be a huge opportunity for them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

+1 They have been a joke since the beginning.

If SGC could just get off their lazy asses and actually do something this could be a huge opportunity for them.

They never have really taken on PSA, in their marketing have they?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They never have really taken on PSA, in their marketing have they?

I love SGC and use them for any PC card I am getting graded. That said it is like they want to fail. Everything but their quality of grading absolutely sucks.

They don't need to take on PSA, they just need to not suck at everything but grading. They have an unbelievable opportunity now that I hope they don't piss away. Maybe they hate money.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I love SGC and use them for any PC card I am getting graded. That said it is like they want to fail. Everything but their quality of grading absolutely sucks.

They don't need to take on PSA, they just need to not suck at everything but grading. They have an unbelievable opportunity now that I hope they don't piss away. Maybe they hate money.

The SGC website home page still promises good things to come, but starts with a video about autograph authentication, which - as they say on the homepage as well - they stopped doing on April 1 after their autograph authentication business was obliterated by a forgery ring in Girard, OH. (PSA would be similarly wise to give up card grading until they come up with a better mouse trap.)

I used to love SGC, and had my entire first T206 set encapsulated by SGC. But all the folks that made SGC so great are now at REA. I have given up on them.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

The SGC website home page still promises good things to come, but starts with a video about autograph authentication, which - as they say on the homepage as well - they stopped doing on April 1 after their autograph authentication took an absolute onslaught from a forgery ring in Girard, OH. (PSA would be similarly wise to give up card grading until they come up with a better mouse trap.)

I used to love SGC, and had my entire first T206 set encapsulated by SGC. But all the folks that made SGC so great are now at REA. I have given up on them.

Perhaps we can help make SGC GREAT AGAIN!!!!! MSGA!!!!!!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

The SGC website home page still promises good things to come, but starts with a video about autograph authentication, which - as they say on the homepage as well - they stopped doing on April 1 after their autograph authentication business was obliterated by a forgery ring in Girard, OH. (PSA would be similarly wise to give up card grading until they come up with a better mouse trap.)

I used to love SGC, and had my entire first T206 set encapsulated by SGC. But all the folks that made SGC so great are now at REA. I have given up on them.

I remember when you were their biggest fan, we used to have some discussions about that. Very interesting. Have their graders left as well or just administrative people?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They never have really taken on PSA, in their marketing have they?

Best not to crow about someone elses negligence when they have plenty of their own.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bnorth

+1 They have been a joke since the beginning.



If SGC could just get off their lazy asses and actually do something this could be a huge opportunity for them.

Let's start with honoring their guaranty, more to follow on that note

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[iwantitiwinit]

What I need clarity on is the wrestling card on this link:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2109 How is it that after the trimming along the right side of the card is completed the card fits more tightly in the holder? Aren't PSA holders one size for standard card issues, ie. every Topps 1966 card is placed in the same type of holder with similar interior dimensions? If that's not the case and PSA uses different sized holders for the same issue then wouldn't PSA immediately know the card is smaller than others of the same issue? Something stinks.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

How is it that after the trimming along the right side of the card is completed the card fits more tightly in the holder? Aren't PSA holders one size for standard card issues, ie. every Topps 1966 card is placed in the same type of holder with similar interior dimensions?

PSA has a variety of sizes of the slabs, and they have a number visible in the bottom right left corner (numbers in reverse). This one I just got back says ".1T" My guess is that they "right size" to the best fitting holder per card. I even had an oversize 1952 Topps baseball card returned to me in a tallboy holder because it wouldn't fit in a normal slab.


You've also heard people complain before about their cards getting mylar bag treatment for some, and not for others in the same submission. Also due to differences in size within the same set.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Let's start with honoring their guaranty, more to follow on that note

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Come on Ted what is the problem, you have been beating around the bush about this subject for quite some time. Is the problem with a altered card that the alteration was not disclosed or was you silly enough to buy a autograph they authenticated.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Come on Ted what is the problem, you have been beating around the bush about this subject for quite some time. Is the problem with a altered card that the alteration was not disclosed or was you silly enough to buy a autograph they authenticated.

Lol, the latter. It was their response which bothered me most. Waiting for a final decision before crucifixion

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[robkas68]

While my natural inclination is one of moderation, I have to admit it is pretty evident that we have a full-blown scandal. My question is how do we police ourselves going forward? Given that PSA and PWCC have roles in this scandal that fall somewhere between gross incompetence and indictment, it’s pretty clear they shouldn’t be writing the rules. Maybe it’s time that we form the trade association that polices itself and forms the rules of the road?

I think this scandal has shown that in the years since Mastro not much has changed. Even assuming that individuals in this scandal are brought to justice, if the controls in place do not change then we are just beginning the countdown to the next scandal.

Rob Kasenter