Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

My question though and I could not find an answer anywhere is why are they going after PWCC and not PSA? Some of these cards are so obviously trimmed it looks like 1/8th of inch was taken off at least. Do the graders at PSA not even bother to measure cards? So why off with PWCC's head and not after PSA for letting so many of these blatantly doctored cards get graded? I don't even see any mention of PSA doing anything wrong...

The bottom line is people have too much money tied up in their PSA graded cards. They don't want to see PSA become another GAI, which could happen before all this is over. It's easier to deflect it to PWCC. I hope PSA falls big time and its reflected in the value of their cards.

[swarmee]

Brent is also the one putting his foot in his mouth repeatedly both by trying to redefine "conservation" vs. "alteration" and doing that ill-advised hourlong interview to explain just how much he's working to out all the fraud, and will never work with card doctors "again." Except the cards are still for sale in PWCC auctions.

Have you seen my new signature block on both sites? PSA deserves a bunch of the blame, but PWCC is trying to be a mouthpiece for the industry and we are the ones that "have to mature." All the while, a million dollars of fraud is going through his auctions almost exclusively. I haven't seen a statement from him/Betsy in days, and haven't received a response to my email to Steve Sloan or Betsy in two weeks.

All that, and one of the main BODA guys is promising fireworks coming up. My bet's on the 1993 SP Derek Jeters that have sold recently for $100K through PWCC and disappeared off of their website during their website glitch. Although it looks like maybe another fraudster has been uncovered.

Your website losing critical functionality at this point in the online investigation just looks "hinky," as Velma would say. Who else would have the pull to get eBay to censor you except for a dealer like PWCC?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The bottom line is people have too much money tied up in their PSA graded cards. They don't want to see PSA become another GAI, which could happen before all this is over. It's easier to deflect it to PWCC. I hope PSA falls big time and its reflected in the value of their cards.

+1 They have been a joke since the beginning.

If SGC could just get off their lazy asses and actually do something this could be a huge opportunity for them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

+1 They have been a joke since the beginning.

If SGC could just get off their lazy asses and actually do something this could be a huge opportunity for them.

They never have really taken on PSA, in their marketing have they?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They never have really taken on PSA, in their marketing have they?

I love SGC and use them for any PC card I am getting graded. That said it is like they want to fail. Everything but their quality of grading absolutely sucks.

They don't need to take on PSA, they just need to not suck at everything but grading. They have an unbelievable opportunity now that I hope they don't piss away. Maybe they hate money.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I love SGC and use them for any PC card I am getting graded. That said it is like they want to fail. Everything but their quality of grading absolutely sucks.

They don't need to take on PSA, they just need to not suck at everything but grading. They have an unbelievable opportunity now that I hope they don't piss away. Maybe they hate money.

The SGC website home page still promises good things to come, but starts with a video about autograph authentication, which - as they say on the homepage as well - they stopped doing on April 1 after their autograph authentication business was obliterated by a forgery ring in Girard, OH. (PSA would be similarly wise to give up card grading until they come up with a better mouse trap.)

I used to love SGC, and had my entire first T206 set encapsulated by SGC. But all the folks that made SGC so great are now at REA. I have given up on them.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

The SGC website home page still promises good things to come, but starts with a video about autograph authentication, which - as they say on the homepage as well - they stopped doing on April 1 after their autograph authentication took an absolute onslaught from a forgery ring in Girard, OH. (PSA would be similarly wise to give up card grading until they come up with a better mouse trap.)

I used to love SGC, and had my entire first T206 set encapsulated by SGC. But all the folks that made SGC so great are now at REA. I have given up on them.

Perhaps we can help make SGC GREAT AGAIN!!!!! MSGA!!!!!!!

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Perhaps we can help make SGC GREAT AGAIN!!!!! MSGA!!!!!!!

+1

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

The SGC website home page still promises good things to come, but starts with a video about autograph authentication, which - as they say on the homepage as well - they stopped doing on April 1 after their autograph authentication business was obliterated by a forgery ring in Girard, OH. (PSA would be similarly wise to give up card grading until they come up with a better mouse trap.)

I used to love SGC, and had my entire first T206 set encapsulated by SGC. But all the folks that made SGC so great are now at REA. I have given up on them.

I remember when you were their biggest fan, we used to have some discussions about that. Very interesting. Have their graders left as well or just administrative people?

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I remember when you were their biggest fan, we used to have some discussions about that. Very interesting. Have their graders left as well or just administrative people?

When Senior Grader Rob Luce left in 2016 to follow Brian Dwyer to REA, I knew it wasn't a good move for SGC. Luce used to travel to the shows, and you could sit down with him and ask how he graded cards, and what he thought of your cards before you submitted them. It was that first-class customer service -- and much more consistent and accurate grading -- that made me their biggest fan.

That they somehow are surviving despite their best efforts to kill themselves is more a testament to the outrageous waiting times for PSA grading than support for their current business model.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They never have really taken on PSA, in their marketing have they?

Best not to crow about someone elses negligence when they have plenty of their own.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bnorth

+1 They have been a joke since the beginning.



If SGC could just get off their lazy asses and actually do something this could be a huge opportunity for them.

Let's start with honoring their guaranty, more to follow on that note

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[iwantitiwinit]

What I need clarity on is the wrestling card on this link:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2109 How is it that after the trimming along the right side of the card is completed the card fits more tightly in the holder? Aren't PSA holders one size for standard card issues, ie. every Topps 1966 card is placed in the same type of holder with similar interior dimensions? If that's not the case and PSA uses different sized holders for the same issue then wouldn't PSA immediately know the card is smaller than others of the same issue? Something stinks.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

How is it that after the trimming along the right side of the card is completed the card fits more tightly in the holder? Aren't PSA holders one size for standard card issues, ie. every Topps 1966 card is placed in the same type of holder with similar interior dimensions?

PSA has a variety of sizes of the slabs, and they have a number visible in the bottom right left corner (numbers in reverse). This one I just got back says ".1T" My guess is that they "right size" to the best fitting holder per card. I even had an oversize 1952 Topps baseball card returned to me in a tallboy holder because it wouldn't fit in a normal slab.


You've also heard people complain before about their cards getting mylar bag treatment for some, and not for others in the same submission. Also due to differences in size within the same set.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Let's start with honoring their guaranty, more to follow on that note

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Come on Ted what is the problem, you have been beating around the bush about this subject for quite some time. Is the problem with a altered card that the alteration was not disclosed or was you silly enough to buy a autograph they authenticated.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Come on Ted what is the problem, you have been beating around the bush about this subject for quite some time. Is the problem with a altered card that the alteration was not disclosed or was you silly enough to buy a autograph they authenticated.

Lol, the latter. It was their response which bothered me most. Waiting for a final decision before crucifixion

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[robkas68]

While my natural inclination is one of moderation, I have to admit it is pretty evident that we have a full-blown scandal. My question is how do we police ourselves going forward? Given that PSA and PWCC have roles in this scandal that fall somewhere between gross incompetence and indictment, it’s pretty clear they shouldn’t be writing the rules. Maybe it’s time that we form the trade association that polices itself and forms the rules of the road?

I think this scandal has shown that in the years since Mastro not much has changed. Even assuming that individuals in this scandal are brought to justice, if the controls in place do not change then we are just beginning the countdown to the next scandal.

Rob Kasenter

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's fine to talk about a trade association but who's going to do the actual work to put one together, draw up the charter, recruit collectors, convince dealers to join, get funding, etc.?

The other problem is we (not singling anyone out) as a group continue to do business with the bad actors, because we can't resist stuff, or money, or whatever. So there is effectively no private enforcement mechanism against bad behavior.