Brent/PWCC interview on recent controversies

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Because the people at PSA are not morons like Brent and Betsy. It baffles me how 2 otherwise intelligent people are too stupid to shut the BLEEP up.

Just look at any other of the latest greatest scandals. When the guilty person(s) was completely silent the scandal went away very quickly. The Mastro fiasco is a perfect example of this.



It will just like all the others. I would be surprised if this lasts another 2 weeks and baffled beyond belief if it is still going in a month.

Yeah I remember when the sky was falling because of all the slabs from Mexico. What happened to all that worry?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah I remember when the sky was falling because of all the slabs from Mexico. What happened to all that worry?

It went away but I would bet the slabs from Mexico didn't go away.

[vintagetoppsguy]

True, but PSA wasn't financially responsible for the slabs from Mexico, but they're on the hook big time for all these doctored cards.

[swarmee]

I will see if anyone's keeping a running tally of all the losses that PWCC and PSA are on the hook for.
In the video interview, Brent said that if PWCC submitted the cards, they will eat the loss, not pass it on to PSA. Noble stance. Let's see if he follows through on it.

All I'm seeing so far is lip service.

[irv]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I will see if anyone's keeping a running tally of all the losses that PWCC and PSA are on the hook for.
In the video interview, Brent said that if PWCC submitted the cards, they will eat the loss, not pass it on to PSA. Noble stance. Let's see if he follows through on it.

All I'm seeing so far is lip service.

Why would he do that? Are Brent and the owner of PSA really good friends or something?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I will see if anyone's keeping a running tally of all the losses that PWCC and PSA are on the hook for.
In the video interview, Brent said that if PWCC submitted the cards, they will eat the loss, not pass it on to PSA. Noble stance. Let's see if he follows through on it.

All I'm seeing so far is lip service.

He had better pray most guys with the bad cards won't know or won't care. If he gets into fights about whether the returner met his burden, he'll get annihilated on Blowout.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He had better pray most guys with the bad cards won't know or won't care. If he gets into fights about whether the returner met his burden, he'll get annihilated on Blowout.

Annihilated on blowout, why would he or anybody else care.LOL Blowout is kinda like telling your mom or the BBB. Telling them might make you feel better but there is absolutely nothing they can really do.

Not that long ago they called out some members over here for shill bidding, trimming cards, and a few other things. Hell that news didn't even get a single post over here.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I think too much focus is being put on Brent/PWCC. As I mentioned before, the scam takes 3 parties - the doctor/submitter, PSA and then someone to sell them (whether knowingly or unknowingly). And whether complicit or incompetent, PSA is the key to making the scam work. You can take the best card doctor in the world, but if PSA is doing their job correctly and none of the doctored cards get past, then those cards really aren't worth anything (other than their raw ungraded value). So there would be no point in doctoring, the doctor finds some other way or hobby to scam. But if PSA continues the pass them, the doctor will still be in business. So let's say Brent/PWCC never takes in another doctored card on consignment ever again. The doctor doesn't need Brent/PWCC to make this work. He can use any other auction / consignment house and under many different names. Do you see how none of this is possible without PSA?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Annihilated on blowout, why would he or anybody else care.LOL Blowout is kinda like telling your mom or the BBB. Telling them might make you feel better but there is absolutely nothing they can really do.

Not that long ago they called out some members over here for shill bidding, trimming cards, and a few other things. Hell that news didn't even get a single post over here.

He does seem to care or he and Betsy wouldn't keep posting there. There must be some spillover effect even if the posts you are referencing didn't go viral.

[Leon]

A lot of what is posted over there is fact BUT a lot of it is conjecture too. With absolutely no accountability they can say anything at all, lies and falsehoods included, and not worry about any repercussions. Again, some of them do great stuff and are factual....and some of them are trolls and criminals just lying out of their pie holes. I think that is the reason some things don't get traction, because they are fallacies from anonymous idiots.

Originally Posted by bnorth

Annihilated on blowout, why would he or anybody else care.LOL Blowout is kinda like telling your mom or the BBB. Telling them might make you feel better but there is absolutely nothing they can really do.

Not that long ago they called out some members over here for shill bidding, trimming cards, and a few other things. Hell that news didn't even get a single post over here.

[commishbob]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I will see if anyone's keeping a running tally of all the losses that PWCC and PSA are on the hook for.
In the video interview, Brent said that if PWCC submitted the cards, they will eat the loss, not pass it on to PSA. Noble stance. Let's see if he follows through on it.

All I'm seeing so far is lip service.

Talk is cheap. I simply don't trust the guy.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

True, but PSA wasn't financially responsible for the slabs from Mexico, but they're on the hook big time for all these doctored cards.

a client of mine had their personal care products (branded perfume) counterfeited and they were made by the DTSC (perfume was flammable) to pay for the destruction of 2- truckloads of counterfeit goods as it had "THEIR NAME ON IT". Only cost them 70K to get rid of the criminals product. PSA should be held to the same standard.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I said this elsewhere but I think it bears repeating here:

Originally Posted by Goudey77 View Post
To rely on internet sources to flag altered cards is not good for our hobby. It causes drama, unnecessary bad publicity, conspiracy theories etc etc. It needs to be done at a collective industry level. My only solution is getting TPG’s to step up their game. Follow what CGC does.

I feel it's very NECESSARY bad publicity.

My problem in general with your scenario of evolution is that it's evolving only after people got caught gaming the system. In other words it's not a "natural" evolution of standards but rather backing and filling to account for deeds already accomplished. You can't do something and then when called out claim you were just trying to evolve the hobby. Forget the hubris for a minute. If you honestly thought that you were the one to lead the hobby to a new paradigm you'd announce it BEFORE you ever started profiting from it.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I said this elsewhere but I think it bears repeating here:

Originally Posted by Goudey77 View Post
To rely on internet sources to flag altered cards is not good for our hobby. It causes drama, unnecessary bad publicity, conspiracy theories etc etc. It needs to be done at a collective industry level. My only solution is getting TPG’s to step up their game. Follow what CGC does.

I feel it's very NECESSARY bad publicity.

My problem in general with your scenario of evolution is that it's evolving only after people got caught gaming the system. In other words it's not a "natural" evolution of standards but rather backing and filling to account for deeds already accomplished. You can't do something and then when called out claim you were just trying to evolve the hobby. Forget the hubris for a minute. If you honestly thought that you were the one to lead the hobby to a new paradigm you'd announce it BEFORE you ever started profiting from it.

Agreed. And who was foolish enough to do it on modern cards that are already numbered from the manufacturer?? While these guys are talented and have been making money hand over fist for quite some time, they sure blew it on that minor (but huge) detail.

[Fuddjcal]

I wonder if Dr Cards is a client of Brent Mastro?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYVdD6WTYYU

not that it bothers me. it just shows him waxing the card, not trimming.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Agreed. And who was foolish enough to do it on modern cards that are already numbered from the manufacturer?? While these guys are talented and have been making money hand over fist for quite some time, they sure blew it on that minor (but huge) detail.

Greed isnt always good

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Agreed. And who was foolish enough to do it on modern cards that are already numbered from the manufacturer?? While these guys are talented and have been making money hand over fist for quite some time, they sure blew it on that minor (but huge) detail.

Big money in those cards, for whatever reason they are what the modern dudes crave.

[MULLINS5]

I was just about to pull the trigger on a very expensive PSA hockey card, but I really have no choice but to hold off for awhile after reading what has been coming out. I'm just now hearing this and getting caught up to speed.

Brent says PWCC is not a grading company - but they are. "High-End" "Exceptional" etc. They say they can offer these grades based on their experience in handling more trading cards than anyone else in the industry. So, why can't they detect alterations?

They couldn't just list a graded card and give a small description and let the pictures sell the card. They used the most ridiculous hyperbole I've ever read for trading cards and developed a grading system for them.

Not surprised it's come to this. Won't be surprised if it comes out someone at PWCC was aware of the scamming.