Alteration vs. Conservation Defined

[irv]

Originally Posted by irv

Post 1150 onward. (Football player) Betsy was informed of this card currently in their auction but the auction is still up and open.

I guess the old saying talk is cheap is true, or tell the people what they want to hear not what is reality.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...290614&page=46

Why would this card still be up? PWCC/Betsy/Brent (Same thing) were told about this card, and likely others days ago yet it is still up and open? From what I read, going forward, cards from known dr's will no longer be submitted but why would they continue to auction this card even if it was submitted before PWCC's new "Tenets"?
Is Brent hoping the new buyer isn't aware of what is currently going on and therefore is taking the chance that he may never hear from the guy/girl ever again or is he going to tell the person, if they question it, that it has been "conserved"?

I don't know about anyone else, but in light of what has currently been exposed, and the fact this card has been flagged and PWCC has been notified, don't you think, if you were a "reputable" and "trusted" selling entity/company that cares about it's customers and the hobby, that you'd take the card down?

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Never get cheated

Forgot about that one!

Originally Posted by calvindog

I’ve seen no evidence that PSA is crooked, i.e. graders being bribed. While it’s obvious that in such a sloppy company run by such a sloppy guy like Orlando, with such opportunities available, I always felt it possible. But without at least strong circumstantial or some direct evidence, I’d never come out and accuse them of fraud as I have with Brent and PWCC which I can easily say is a crooked operation, knee-deep in easily proven fraud. However, after seeing this before and after set of pics, what else can any objective person think? I mean that shit is crazy. Either Stevie Wonder is grading cards at PSA or something nefarious is going on. What else can it be?

I just read on BO that PSA has slightly different sized slabs that accomodate slightly smaller sizes?

I don't know, but if I had graded some/numerous types of cards then came across one that was a little smaller/shorter that moved around in the "Normal/Approved" slab that I've always used, I think I'd have another look at it to see what is going on first before placing it in this slightly smaller/internal sized slab, especially if this card appeared to good to be true for it's age.

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1482

Mercy.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1482

Mercy.

Yowzers! Makes you wonder what superdan does for a living. Or more like what he should be doing. Forensics maybe?

[perezfan]

PSA needs to be held accountable. There must be 20 (or more) still uncovered examples for every one that has been detected. Most will never be uncovered.

If GAI went away, then PSA certainly should. This scandal is more problematic, as there are only two potential reasons for PSA's "mistakes"... Ineptitude or doing "favors".

And neither one merits consumer trust (which is the entire reason for PSA's existence).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

PSA needs to be held accountable. There must be 20 (or more) still uncovered examples for every one that has been detected. Most will never be uncovered.

If GAI went away, then PSA certainly should. This scandal is more problematic, as there are only two potential reasons for PSA's "mistakes"... Ineptitude or doing "favors".

And neither one merits consumer trust (which is the entire reason for PSA's existence).

People said the same of the big financial institutions after the crash of 2008. How did that work out? I think on a far smaller scale of course, "too big to fail" might be an apt analogy.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Alteration, conservation, doctoring or whatever you want to call it, at what point does it become illegal? It's not against the law to doctor a card. As unethical as it is, the cards belong to the owners and the owners are free to do with them whatever they choose - soak it in twenty different chemicals, trim it, draw a moustache on it or whatever. If it were illegal, Dick Towelle and others would already be out of business a long time ago.

So, at what point does it become illegal? Sending it to PSA for grading? Selling it without disclosing the work that was done? In other words, if a prosecutor was trying this case, what kind of charges would he pursue? What party would he bring the charges - the doctor, PSA, the consignor? Just curious and hoping some of the legal eagles could shed some light on what we hope is to come.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If it were illegal, Dick Towelle and others would already be out of business a long time ago.

2nd time you've mentioned him. The one person who pubically writes what he does to cards for others. Not sure if he submits, and doubtful he auctions for others. Seems like you have an axe to grind.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There might be other offenses involved, but certainly wire fraud and (if a catalog was involved) mail fraud. I would presume a prosecutor would charge anyone he or she thought could be convicted for "devising" or knowingly participating in the "scheme or artifice to defraud" which of course would depend on what evidence law enforcement gathered as to the various participants. So it's conjecture at this point, for me anyhow.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

2nd time you've mentioned him. The one person who pubically writes what he does to cards for others. Not sure if he submits, and doubtful he auctions for others. Seems like you have an axe to grind.

2nd time? Please show me the first time.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1482

Mercy.

HowIronic...I feel betrayed!!!!!

[chalupacollects]

So the traitor got a trim... smh...