Alteration vs. Conservation Defined

[vintagetoppsguy]

Alteration, conservation, doctoring or whatever you want to call it, at what point does it become illegal? It's not against the law to doctor a card. As unethical as it is, the cards belong to the owners and the owners are free to do with them whatever they choose - soak it in twenty different chemicals, trim it, draw a moustache on it or whatever. If it were illegal, Dick Towelle and others would already be out of business a long time ago.

So, at what point does it become illegal? Sending it to PSA for grading? Selling it without disclosing the work that was done? In other words, if a prosecutor was trying this case, what kind of charges would he pursue? What party would he bring the charges - the doctor, PSA, the consignor? Just curious and hoping some of the legal eagles could shed some light on what we hope is to come.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If it were illegal, Dick Towelle and others would already be out of business a long time ago.

2nd time you've mentioned him. The one person who pubically writes what he does to cards for others. Not sure if he submits, and doubtful he auctions for others. Seems like you have an axe to grind.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There might be other offenses involved, but certainly wire fraud and (if a catalog was involved) mail fraud. I would presume a prosecutor would charge anyone he or she thought could be convicted for "devising" or knowingly participating in the "scheme or artifice to defraud" which of course would depend on what evidence law enforcement gathered as to the various participants. So it's conjecture at this point, for me anyhow.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

2nd time you've mentioned him. The one person who pubically writes what he does to cards for others. Not sure if he submits, and doubtful he auctions for others. Seems like you have an axe to grind.

2nd time? Please show me the first time.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

2nd time? Please show me the first time.

Sorry, did you just take the name from Goudey77s post? Maybe it was him. I know he was mentioned earlier.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Sorry, did you just take the name from Goudey77s post? Maybe it was him. I know he was mentioned earlier.

I think Chuck and I had a brief exchange about him.

[barrysloate]

I can't believe that someone would actually pay 3k for a Look n See card of Benedict Arnold. Why?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I can't believe that someone would actually pay 3k for a Look n See card of Benedict Arnold. Why?

Why would Topps make a card of Benedict Arnold?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I can't believe that someone would actually pay 3k for a Look n See card of Benedict Arnold. Why?

You know the answer to that Barry.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I can't believe that someone would actually pay 3k for a Look n See card of Benedict Arnold. Why?

Because these people would buy a loose turd, if it were properly slabbed and assigned an ultra-high numeric grade. This type of collector needs the validation of a 3rd party, and has little ability to think for themselves. And conveniently enough, there's an easy way to turn a profit at their expense.

It's the current-day example of "The Emperor's Clothes". Hopefully with time, that will change.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I can't believe that someone would actually pay 3k for a Look n See card of Benedict Arnold. Why?

Uh, because someone in 2019 would pay 3k?