Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Same Buyer on the Baker. Sold by painthistorian on February 23 2015.

Attachment 335738

I have, from a reliable source, the ebay buyer's id (same as the Flick, I guess). The ebay fraud folks are interested in helping too. We will see where this goes. Also, are there any bad ones on ebay right now (does anyone know)?

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have, from a reliable source, the ebay buyer's id (same as the Flick, I guess). The ebay fraud folks are interested in helping too. We will see where this goes. Also, are there any bad ones on ebay right now (does anyone know)?

Do you imagine the criminal(s) who pulled this fraud are reading these threads? Do you suppose they are sleeping well tonight?

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Do you imagine the criminal(s) who pulled this fraud are reading these threads? Do you suppose they are sleeping well tonight?

I certainly hope they aren't and I hope they rot in hell.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Do you imagine the criminal(s) who pulled this fraud are reading these threads? Do you suppose they are sleeping well tonight?

It might even be possible that the actual forger is inputting his opinion into these threads.

[jad22]

Really too bad eBay bidder history on Watchcount.com was discontinued.

[Millerd33]

Are index cards from 2013 Historic Autographs (the slabbed one with the t206 and the auto under them slabbed by PSA/DNA) Safe?

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by Millerd33

Are index cards from 2013 Historic Autographs (the slabbed one with the t206 and the auto under them slabbed by PSA/DNA) Safe?

I wouldn't suspect they've been the target of this fraud artist, since those bring a much smaller dollar amount in a sale, than a signed T206. Wouldn't necessarily guarantee its authenticity 100%, but that doesn't seem to be the market for this forger.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by scooter729

I wouldn't suspect they've been the target of this fraud artist, since those bring a much smaller dollar amount in a sale, than a signed T206. Wouldn't necessarily guarantee its authenticity 100%, but that doesn't seem to be the market for this forger.

Dunno...it will be interesting to see as this unravels if this trickles down to chase cards/auto cards in modern era sets distributed by the big guys like topps?

[1treasuretrove]

Originally Posted by jad22

Really too bad eBay bidder history on Watchcount.com was discontinued.

It sure makes tracking more difficult. I miss the days of goofbay too - some of the toolhaus site helps when tracking mutual feedback.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by jad22

Really too bad eBay bidder history on Watchcount.com was discontinued.

Ah, I was wondering what happened to that, thought it was just a glitch last time I tried checking. Guess not.

[Peter_Spaeth]

And here I thought the only things being forged in Youngstown were iron and steel.

[Buythatcard]

Over the past 15 years, I have sold over 5,700 T206's both graded and ungraded.

I have kept a database of every single transaction which includes the date it was sold, ebay item id, and buyer's eMail address, sold amount, etc.

I never sold an autographed one but that does not mean someone did not take one of my cards and forged an autograph.

If any of those cards have a forged autograph and was sold by me when it did not have an autograph, I would be more than happy to give up the buyer's email address and date it was sold. Might help in tracking down a forger or two.

BTW, I kept track of every single transaction, not just T206's.

[autograf]

If the buyer/seller/etc did anything with PayPal, the seller can also download any transactions back for 5-6 years via PayPal. I did that recently with all of mine and stuck it in a Microsoft Access Database. It has a SIGNIFICANT amount of info on both sellers and buyers depending on how you select the data. Great functionality.

[painthistorian]

I will be speaking to Jason this morning after he returns from court...I will authorize Jason as an attorney to release the guys e bay ID(he currently sells on e bay) and I also will provide an original print out on "Feedback forum: Reply to Feedback Received) which also includes the detailed verification of the item # match that now clearly ties the winning bidder with the worchpoint summary page provided by Pat...this shows a clear connection to the "coded" e bay name seen on this post and also the bidder resides, lets guess...in OHIO.

I am wondering if this same person also is responsible for some of the fake PSA slabbed cards that were offered from same state.

[SetBuilder]

Fun fact: Girard, Ohio was the location of one of the Cliff Panezich associates.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by painthistorian

I will be speaking to Jason this morning after he returns from court...I will authorize Jason as an attorney to release the guys e bay ID(he currently sells on e bay) and I also will provide an original print out on "Feedback forum: Reply to Feedback Received) which also includes the detailed verification of the item # match that now clearly ties the winning bidder with the worchpoint summary page provided by Pat...this shows a clear connection to the "coded" e bay name seen on this post and also the bidder resides, lets guess...in OHIO.

I am wondering if this same person also is responsible for some of the fake PSA slabbed cards that were offered from same state.

Larry -- if it was mentioned earlier forgive me, but what fake PSA slabbed cards out of Ohio?

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Hey Howard,

I saw your post on transactions and I would like to transition my logs into what you are doing so I can help for situations like this.

How are you keeping track of your transactions?

Regards,

Brent

[hank_jp]

I recently won a T206 signed Larry Doyle batting, Lot 809 in Love of the Game Auctions. It was in a PSA/DNA Blue Label holder with an auto grade of Mint 9.
There was also an issue with another card, the Lake/Bender ghost image, authenticated by SGC, that a respected collector thought may be problematic
When the issue of fake T206 autographs started to blow up, Al Crisafulli of LOTG called me and said he was going to resubmit the card to PSA so they could look it over again in order to recertify it's authenticity, rather than just sending it out to me. He was also going to do the same thing with the SGC card.

Here is his email to me below about what transpired:

Hi Hank:

Hope all is well with you.

Just wanted to let you know the status of your items, as I heard back from PSA last night and SGC this morning.

1) PSA is not comfortable with the Doyle. The card was authenticated in 2013, as you know, and they had a different team of authenticators at that time. Their new team, Bill Corcoran and Kevin Keating, feel the signature is a forgery. As such, we are going to need to take that card out of the hobby. I will process a refund for your purchase price on that card right away.

2) On the other hand, SGC IS comfortable with the Lake/Bender. They reviewed it, they feel the same way about it that they did when they first assessed it, and so they’ve given it their blessing once again. They are returning it to me in a brand-new holder with their new flip, and I’ll send it your way ASAP with the rest of your order.

Thanks for being understanding about this. Obviously it’s very important to me that we do not contribute to fraud in this hobby in any way, and when something comes up like this, I think it’s critical to investigate it and get it right, every time.

Thanks, and Happy Holidays!

Regards,
-Al


Al Crisafulli
Love of the Game Auctions

[Peter_Spaeth]

Al is and always has been a stand up guy, IMO.

[oldjudge]

Hank-Do you think this means that one of the two autographs was good, or that, even with two chances, SGC can't tell a bad signature from a good one? Who authenticates autographs for SGC?

[daves_resale_shop]

Originally Posted by hank_jp

I recently won a T206 signed Larry Doyle batting, Lot 809 in Love of the Game Auctions. It was in a PSA/DNA Blue Label holder with an auto grade of Mint 9.
There was also an issue with another card, the Lake/Bender ghost image, authenticated by SGC, that a respected collector thought may be problematic
When the issue of fake T206 autographs started to blow up, Al Crisafulli of LOTG called me and said he was going to resubmit the card to PSA so they could look it over again in order to recertify it's authenticity, rather than just sending it out to me. He was also going to do the same thing with the SGC card.

Here is his email to me below about what transpired:

Hi Hank:

Hope all is well with you.

Just wanted to let you know the status of your items, as I heard back from PSA last night and SGC this morning.

1) PSA is not comfortable with the Doyle. The card was authenticated in 2013, as you know, and they had a different team of authenticators at that time. Their new team, Bill Corcoran and Kevin Keating, feel the signature is a forgery. As such, we are going to need to take that card out of the hobby. I will process a refund for your purchase price on that card right away.

2) On the other hand, SGC IS comfortable with the Lake/Bender. They reviewed it, they feel the same way about it that they did when they first assessed it, and so they’ve given it their blessing once again. They are returning it to me in a brand-new holder with their new flip, and I’ll send it your way ASAP with the rest of your order.

Thanks for being understanding about this. Obviously it’s very important to me that we do not contribute to fraud in this hobby in any way, and when something comes up like this, I think it’s critical to investigate it and get it right, every time.

Thanks, and Happy Holidays!

Regards,
-Al


Al Crisafulli
Love of the Game Auctions

Class act.

[The Nasty Nati]

Originally Posted by hank_jp

I recently won a T206 signed Larry Doyle batting, Lot 809 in Love of the Game Auctions. It was in a PSA/DNA Blue Label holder with an auto grade of Mint 9.
There was also an issue with another card, the Lake/Bender ghost image, authenticated by SGC, that a respected collector thought may be problematic
When the issue of fake T206 autographs started to blow up, Al Crisafulli of LOTG called me and said he was going to resubmit the card to PSA so they could look it over again in order to recertify it's authenticity, rather than just sending it out to me. He was also going to do the same thing with the SGC card.

Here is his email to me below about what transpired:

Hi Hank:

Hope all is well with you.

Just wanted to let you know the status of your items, as I heard back from PSA last night and SGC this morning.

1) PSA is not comfortable with the Doyle. The card was authenticated in 2013, as you know, and they had a different team of authenticators at that time. Their new team, Bill Corcoran and Kevin Keating, feel the signature is a forgery. As such, we are going to need to take that card out of the hobby. I will process a refund for your purchase price on that card right away.

2) On the other hand, SGC IS comfortable with the Lake/Bender. They reviewed it, they feel the same way about it that they did when they first assessed it, and so they’ve given it their blessing once again. They are returning it to me in a brand-new holder with their new flip, and I’ll send it your way ASAP with the rest of your order.

Thanks for being understanding about this. Obviously it’s very important to me that we do not contribute to fraud in this hobby in any way, and when something comes up like this, I think it’s critical to investigate it and get it right, every time.

Thanks, and Happy Holidays!

Regards,
-Al


Al Crisafulli
Love of the Game Auctions

So is PSA basically saying that their authentication team was rubbish around 2013?

What does that say for all the other autos PSA authenticated at that time? Like Goudeys, Play Balls, '52 Topps, etc? That's a little unsettling that PSA admits that.

[LOUCARDFAN]

I am curious how the consignor of the Doyle will be compensated in a situation like this.

Originally Posted by hank_jp

I recently won a T206 signed Larry Doyle batting, Lot 809 in Love of the Game Auctions. It was in a PSA/DNA Blue Label holder with an auto grade of Mint 9.
There was also an issue with another card, the Lake/Bender ghost image, authenticated by SGC, that a respected collector thought may be problematic
When the issue of fake T206 autographs started to blow up, Al Crisafulli of LOTG called me and said he was going to resubmit the card to PSA so they could look it over again in order to recertify it's authenticity, rather than just sending it out to me. He was also going to do the same thing with the SGC card.

Here is his email to me below about what transpired:

Hi Hank:

Hope all is well with you.

Just wanted to let you know the status of your items, as I heard back from PSA last night and SGC this morning.

1) PSA is not comfortable with the Doyle. The card was authenticated in 2013, as you know, and they had a different team of authenticators at that time. Their new team, Bill Corcoran and Kevin Keating, feel the signature is a forgery. As such, we are going to need to take that card out of the hobby. I will process a refund for your purchase price on that card right away.

2) On the other hand, SGC IS comfortable with the Lake/Bender. They reviewed it, they feel the same way about it that they did when they first assessed it, and so they’ve given it their blessing once again. They are returning it to me in a brand-new holder with their new flip, and I’ll send it your way ASAP with the rest of your order.

Thanks for being understanding about this. Obviously it’s very important to me that we do not contribute to fraud in this hobby in any way, and when something comes up like this, I think it’s critical to investigate it and get it right, every time.

Thanks, and Happy Holidays!

Regards,
-Al


Al Crisafulli
Love of the Game Auctions

[Big Six]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have, from a reliable source, the ebay buyer's id (same as the Flick, I guess). The ebay fraud folks are interested in helping too. We will see where this goes. Also, are there any bad ones on ebay right now (does anyone know)?

See Post 262 for six current eBay listings. From what I’ve seen, at least a couple look suspect and one seller had three listings. Better scans below...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have, from a reliable source, the ebay buyer's id (same as the Flick, I guess). The ebay fraud folks are interested in helping too. We will see where this goes. Also, are there any bad ones on ebay right now (does anyone know)?

Leon, this is big. His feedback history likely contains his entire forgery portfolio. It could be 100 cards or more. All we need to do it look through each one on Cardtarget and Worthpoint by the title and seller ID, and then look to see if any signed versions surfaced 9 months later at auctions. This can blow the case wide open!

[T206Collector]

Have we found any irregularities about these four, which were found in a Steiner auction (of all places)? I know there have been individual postings about some or all of these. All it would take to add Steiner into the mix would be finding one of these to be fraudulent. It would also give us a New York nexus, and I happen to live here and would be happy to spend some time with the local law enforcement folks.



https://auction.steinersports.com/19...lot104527.aspx

https://auction.steinersports.com/19...lot104524.aspx

https://auction.steinersports.com/19...lot104525.aspx

https://auction.steinersports.com/19...lot104526.aspx

[tsalem]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Have we found any irregularities about these four, which were found in a Steiner auction (of all places)? I know there have been individual postings about some or all of these. All it would take to add Steiner into the mix would be finding one of these to be fraudulent. It would also give us a New York nexus, and I happen to live here and would be happy to spend some time with the local law enforcement folks.



https://auction.steinersports.com/19...lot104527.aspx

https://auction.steinersports.com/19...lot104524.aspx

https://auction.steinersports.com/19...lot104525.aspx

https://auction.steinersports.com/19...lot104526.aspx

Yes, more info on these Steiner listings would be great

[egbeachley]

Has this site matured? The net54baseball site I know would have put the culprits name out there first and then consider guilt vs innocence.

[1treasuretrove]

I imagine a lot of folks keep checking back to see if the user ID was posted. I bet this group here could sweep the feedback history and find another couple dozen cards to add to the list. Interesting to watch this develop...

[1treasuretrove]

Sorry, edited to say: any chance to put sales prices on the page 1 post? A running rally would be good to see how big this fraud is becoming.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by tsalem

Yes, more info on these Steiner listings would be great

I got a call from Steiner this morning. I got a ton of information about the consignor, and am confident they came from an original collection of through-the-mail cards, including mostly index cards, from the 1950s and 1960s. They will be sending me some additional, corroborating provenance and information about the collection, which I will either post here or on my website or both.

So, I do not believe that Manny Anti-Forgers Inc. will be able to find unsigned versions of these four anywhere. They are good.