Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)

[Chris-Counts]

"... they have been doing tons of Goudey cards too ..."

A ton of signed Goudeys were recently auctioned off by REA, and it's amazing how many sold for between $5,000 and $10,000 each. Not just stars, but average players with tough autographs. I'll bet some of those buyers are nervously watching this thread.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Chris Counts

"... they have been doing tons of Goudey cards too ..."

A ton of signed Goudeys were recently auctioned off by REA, and it's amazing how many sold for between $5,000 and $10,000 each. Not just stars, but average players with tough autographs. I'll bet some of those buyers are nervously watching this thread.

This kind of money might just get LE interested.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by Chris Counts

"... they have been doing tons of Goudey cards too ..."

A ton of signed Goudeys were recently auctioned off by REA, and it's amazing how many sold for between $5,000 and $10,000 each. Not just stars, but average players with tough autographs. I'll bet some of those buyers are nervously watching this thread.

Who wants to start looking for Goudeys? I've tried looking for a few with no luck. I'm not experienced with this issue.

The signed ones I've seen look suspiciously like the forged T206 cards. Same style of handwriting. I've seen quite a few with signatures in exactly the same place and at the same angle, but with different pens. Very weird and highly improbable.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

Who wants to start looking for Goudeys? I've tried looking for a few with no luck. I'm not experienced with this issue.

The signed ones I've seen look suspiciously like the forged T206 cards. Same style of handwriting. I've seen quite a few with signatures in exactly the same place and at the same angle, but with different pens. Very weird and highly improbable.

They'd probably be harder to find just by the sheer virtue that Goudeys are, from what I've seen, more readily available, less valuable and more often sold in lots as opposed to individual cards, and more seldom slabbed in lower grades.

[Lordstan]

I posted this in a similar thread on the auto side, but feel it is relevant here as well.

The problem, and my main bone of contention with TPAs in my many rants on Net54 and other places, is that people placed them too high on a pedestal. The public took TPA OPINIONS, and made them definitive confirmations of truth. I saw an interview of a panel of autograph experts, from a number of years ago, where Kevin Keating, who was one of the panel, stated that he wished what PSA would give were called a "Letter of Opinion" rather than a "Letter of Authenticity" for this exact reason. This blind faith in TPAs has given rise to the lowering of our guard as to what we know vs what we want to believe. Due diligence was now something the TPAs were supposed to do for us. Unfortunately, it would be impossible for them to process the volume of autos they do and still take the time to do the legwork Manny did to open up this can of worms.
Now the TPAs did nothing to stop people from taking their opinions as fact. Why would they? The more people trust them, the more business they get.(which of course leads to higher volume which means less time spent per auto, This also means less time to do any sort of investigation like has been done with the T206s. This also means that less skilled and experienced people would need to be vetting the autos in order to meet the time guidelines for submission levels.)
The auction houses also share responsibility as they have now outsourced much of their due diligence to TPAs, for both autos and cards. Why wouldn't they? They get to have clean hands from any disputes as they are not responsible for saying the autos are real. By pushing more and more on the TPA, this furthers their reputation of reliability which increases their business volume, which makes all the problems I noted before that much worse.

No solution will satisfy everyone is the reality. TPAs have good and bad things about them. IMO, The best way to collect autos is to 1) due your own due diligence. Start by being a skeptic and demand the auto be proven real rather than the other way. 2) Develop a network of people whose opinion you trust to help you see things without emotion. 3) Understand what level of risk you are willing to accept. If your answer is none, then you should not collect anything at all. Save your money and go on vacations around the world. Anywhere demand and money meet, criminals will look to take advantage. It is true in any collectible. 4)If it's too good to be true it probably is.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Unfortunately, it would be impossible for them to process the volume of autos they do and still take the time to do the legwork Manny did to open up this can of worms.

It is my understanding that Manny found these in minutes through a simple search. For $XXX, I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect 10 minutes of online research into a particular card.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by conor912

It is my understanding that Manny found these in minutes through a simple search. For $XXX, I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect 10 minutes of online research into a particular card.

10min per item would time out to only 48 items certed per day per 8hr shift or 240 items per week. Considering all the slabs and certs these companies churn out, do you really think most TPAs are spending 10min per item? If they are who is actually doing all the certing? Are the name people at PSA working 30hrs a day? If not, who is doing it? What are their qualifications outside of having a big computer exemplar file?

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

do you really think most TPAs are spending 10min per item?

No, I don't. Which is what got them into this mess.

Originally Posted by Lordstan

What are their qualifications outside of having a big computer exemplar file?

That, sir, is a great question.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

3) Understand what level of risk you are willing to accept. If your answer is none, then you should not collect anything at all. Save your money and go on vacations around the world. Anywhere demand and money meet, criminals will look to take advantage. It is true in any collectible.

I wrote this is post 290 of this thread. IMO, This is the proper mindset for anyone collecting anything. There will always be bad people trying to take advantage of situations for power, money, control, etc. We all need to define our tolerance level for that risk. I collect autographs because I am comfortable with the risk that is involved. I take measures to try to mitigate that risk, but fully understand that my collection very likely has some bad items in it. Would I prefer them to not be there? SUre. unfortunately, the only way to guarantee that is to only collect autos I see signed in person. To me that would lessen my enjoyment of my hobby

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

I wrote this is post 290 of this thread. IMO, This is the proper mindset for anyone collecting anything. There will always be bad people trying to take advantage of situations for power, money, control, etc. We all need to define our tolerance level for that risk. I collect autographs because I am comfortable with the risk that is involved. I take measures to try to mitigate that risk, but fully understand that my collection very likely has some bad items in it. Would I prefer them to not be there? SUre. unfortunately, the only way to guarantee that is to only collect autos I see signed in person. To me that would lessen my enjoyment of my hobby

Well said (again)!

[insidethewrapper]

I wonder if any more of these auto cards are sitting at SGC, PSA etc waiting to be certified ? They would have been sent in weeks ago .

[dmanrico]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

I wonder if any more of these auto cards are sitting at SGC, PSA etc waiting to be certified ? They would have been sent in weeks ago .

Great point. You’d think the forgers machine is still rolling and that there would be new attempts at Authentication currently at these companies.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

I wonder if any more of these auto cards are sitting at SGC, PSA etc waiting to be certified ? They would have been sent in weeks ago .

I was wondering how many are sitting at auction houses right now, waiting to be listed?

[1952boyntoncollector]

I dont know why when someone buys cards to than fake sign them, why not change the card more...i know you willl lose some money for a lesser condition card but doesnt these valued Autos make it worth it....if the new person took a corner off or put another black dot or two on it....nobody would of been the wiser.......

plus having 3 dot stains versus now 5 dots..probably changes the value hardly anything

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I dont know why when someone buys cards to than fake sign them, why not change the card more...i know you willl lose some money for a lesser condition card but doesnt these valued Autos make it worth it....if the new person took a corner off or put another black dot or two on it....nobody would of been the wiser.......

plus having 3 dot stains versus now 5 dots..probably changes the value hardly anything

And why did the forger buy slabbed cards which, obviously, can be traced?
That does not make sense to me.
Go to the National and scoop up raw cards would seem to be a much better way to do it.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I dont know why when someone buys cards to than fake sign them, why not change the card more...i know you willl lose some money for a lesser condition card but doesnt these valued Autos make it worth it....if the new person took a corner off or put another black dot or two on it....nobody would of been the wiser.......

plus having 3 dot stains versus now 5 dots..probably changes the value hardly anything

They did.