SGC versus PSA slabs

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

But I am a collector and not a seller. And I do notice that PSA seem to get a premium price especially on higher end. I think the cards you are referring to shouldn't make too much of a difference but for resale it's PSA. Who knows what will happen in 20 years. Things can shift. Subway over took McDonalds in total US stores and now they are closing down stores and getting themselves in trouble because their product has become stale.

Steve

The “deep fried” look of McDonalds grading is a red flag for me. I also worry about the long term effect of the salt on the cards.

The Subway slab however, if not microwaved, is well suited for entombing the “tall boy” cards. Just don’t order the meat balls and ask for any sauce you choose on the side.

[marvymelvin]

Resale value: PSA
Look and eye appeal: SGC

The jury is not even close on both accounts.

I think it's interesting that every time a thread like this is posted, everyone mentions the resale value when it comes to selling PSA graded cards and hardly ever brings up the relative value of buying SGC graded cards. You likely will get more money reselling PSA graded cards, but if you're interested in collecting quality cards you can get more bang for your buck buying SGC graded cards with eye appeal.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

I think it's interesting that every time a thread like this is posted, everyone mentions the resale value when it comes to selling PSA graded cards and hardly ever brings up the relative value of buying SGC graded cards. You likely will get more money reselling PSA graded cards, but if you're interested in collecting quality cards you can get more bang for your buck buying SGC graded cards with eye appeal.

100%. And for me - I collect rarer 100+ year old cards- I don’t care what flip it’s in as long as it’s SGC or PSA; indeed, sometimes there are so few graded examples of what I am after that grade, let alone grading company, is wholly irrelevant (see attached). And I love picking up great looking T and E cards in an SGC 50 case for less than what people are paying for worse looking versions in PSA 3 flips. If you are collecting Tom Seaver or Bob Gibson rookies, I think PSA is (strongly) preferred to SGC. But when it comes to prewar, I will take either and will gladly pay less for an SGC flip than more for the same card in a PSA flip.

[frankbmd]

Looking only at resale value only without looking at the cost of acquisition confounds me, if you are considering cards that are already graded.

Your margin, which should be considered on a percentage basis, requires both numbers.

If you do not overpay for SGC or even BVG, your ultimate margin should be equivalent.

I have tracked margins in my collection for over 10 years, and when it comes to ROI (return on investment percentage),

PSA=SGC=BVG

I realize that I am considered a heretic here for making this argument, but I have the data to prove it.

My mantra is

Buy the card, but consider the holder to determine the purchase price. I am not a PSA guy, an SGC guy or a BVG guy.

If, on the other hand, you are considering grading previously ungraded cards, PSA is probably the best choice due to the Registry effect, for higher end Registry worthy cards.

If you are buying SGC cards or BVG cards with the intent to crossover to PSA for profit, good luck. That’s not my game.

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Looking only at resale value only without looking at the cost of acquisition confounds me, if you are considering cards that are already graded.

Your margin, which should be considered on a percentage basis, requires both numbers.

If you do not overpay for SGC or even BVG, your ultimate margin should be equivalent.

I have tracked margins in my collection for over 10 years, and when it comes to ROI (return on investment percentage),

PSA=SGC=BVG

I realize that I am considered a heretic here for making this argument, but I have the data to prove it.

My mantra is

Buy the card, but consider the holder to determine the purchase price. I am not a PSA guy, an SGC guy or a BVG guy.

If, on the other hand, you are considering grading previously ungraded cards, PSA is probably the best choice due to the Registry effect, for higher end Registry worthy cards.

If you are buying SGC cards or BVG cards with the intent to crossover to PSA for profit, good luck. That’s not my game.

I agree with you and believe you when it comes to ROI because I've experienced similar results. Its all relative to what you initially pay and eye appeal will also close the gap some when/if the time comes to sell

[boneheadandrube]

I prefer to pay less for the same card in a holder that looks better to me. The key is you have to be able to judge condition on your own and purchase the card instead of the holder.

Its true that when you go to sell it could be for less, but you paid less in the first place. I guess its hard for some to understand that and buyers premiums?

If you are buying raw and submitting for profit, then sure send to PSA. The problem I have with sending to them is they are terribly inconsistent with pre war cards. It seems like 10-20% of every submission I make gets graded inaccurately. How do I come to that conclusion? Because when I resubmit those cards two months later they get different grades again, and if I send them two months after that some will get the same grades they did the first time and some will get new ones altogether. I have seen T206's go from Altered to 6, N5 to 5.5 and vice versa over and over.

I think as a business its not in their best interest to get the grades on discontinued cards exactly right the first time, they'll never see it again. They have to be aware that people en masse just resubmit cards if they don't like the grades, so why fix the consistency problem? In fact, how about a couple of times a year they should rotate graders from newer Pokemon non sport and the like into older baseball cards just to make it 25%. That would never happen...

To me SGC is much more consistent with pre war and there isn't a premium for popularity. If you can determine which cards you want without relying on the holder to tell you, you can spend less on the same thing.

*It seems like there is more discussion about the monetary aspects of cards in PSA holders than the actual attributes of the cards themselves..unless they are obviously altered.

[Rhotchkiss]

Ok, here is the real question- a very pretty 52 Topps Mantle PSA 9 sells for $2.88mm. How much does that same exact card in an SGC 96 flip sell for?

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Ok, here is the real question- a very pretty 52 Topps Mantle PSA 9 sells for $2.88mm. How much does that same exact card in an SGC 96 flip sell for?

Drawing any conclusion about a grading company based on the results of a single card, and an outlier at that, would be scoffed at by even an average statistician. As I said before, the Registry effect for high end Registry worthy cards exists. I would venture to say that most of us do not play that game.

If PSA was the only option, would the hobby be better of?

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Ok, here is the real question- a very pretty 52 Topps Mantle PSA 9 sells for $2.88mm. How much does that same exact card in an SGC 96 flip sell for?

Who knows, but it’s not all that important to me because I couldn’t afford a 1952 Topps Mantle in a SGC or PSA 3 holder. A more interesting question might be what will his exact card sell for 5 years from now?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Ok, here is the real question- a very pretty 52 Topps Mantle PSA 9 sells for $2.88mm. How much does that same exact card in an SGC 96 flip sell for?

IMO, it would sell for higher than a PSA 8 price, maybe reaching close to $1M....It wouldn't smell what a PSA 9 would go for, not even close, period...

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

I prefer to pay less for the same card in a holder that looks better to me. The key is you have to be able to judge condition on your own and purchase the card instead of the holder.

Its true that when you go to sell it could be for less, but you paid less in the first place. I guess its hard for some to understand that and buyers premiums?

If you are buying raw and submitting for profit, then sure send to PSA. The problem I have with sending to them is they are terribly inconsistent with pre war cards. It seems like 10-20% of every submission I make gets graded inaccurately. How do I come to that conclusion? Because when I resubmit those cards two months later they get different grades again, and if I send them two months after that some will get the same grades they did the first time and some will get new ones altogether. I have seen T206's go from Altered to 6, N5 to 5.5 and vice versa over and over.

I think as a business its not in their best interest to get the grades on discontinued cards exactly right the first time, they'll never see it again. They have to be aware that people en masse just resubmit cards if they don't like the grades, so why fix the consistency problem? In fact, how about a couple of times a year they should rotate graders from newer Pokemon non sport and the like into older baseball cards just to make it 25%. That would never happen...

To me SGC is much more consistent with pre war and there isn't a premium for popularity. If you can determine which cards you want without relying on the holder to tell you, you can spend less on the same thing.

*It seems like there is more discussion about the monetary aspects of cards in PSA holders than the actual attributes of the cards themselves..unless they are obviously altered.

+1
100% couldn’t agree more.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by marvymelvin

Resale value: PSA
Look and eye appeal: SGC

The jury is not even close on both accounts.

Bingo! Case in point, two nice 1914 Ty Cobb Cracker Jacks, say exmt, one in a PSA holder the other SGC's. Which one beautifies the card and which one is sort of blah? And while it may only be a temporary situation, any cards today sent to PSA might be returned graded about the time of the first Mars landing.

[Marchillo]

I think most people on this thread are in agreement with what most people are saying. When I'm buying cards I don't care what holders they are in SGC/PSA/BVG. Im buying the card and use grade as a guide not the primary reason I am buying that card. I use SGC to grade cards I'm submitting for all the reasons I stated above. But if I had any real high end cards I was planning on selling (ie PSA 9 Mantle) it's PSA all the way.

But the cards I have range under $250. I think the ROI people are talking about applies to my collection as well so I'll go with SGC.