SGC versus PSA slabs

[Marchillo]

I am SGC's biggest fan. I go to shows and don't have to wait in lines, I think their cases are sharper, customer service is top notch. I always talk to the same two people when I call, they've never failed me on estimated delivery times.

But I am a collector and not a seller. And I do notice that PSA seem to get a premium price especially on higher end. I think the cards you are referring to shouldn't make too much of a difference but for resale it's PSA. Who knows what will happen in 20 years. Things can shift. Subway over took McDonalds in total US stores and now they are closing down stores and getting themselves in trouble because their product has become stale.

Steve

[bnorth]

If you are worried about prices in the future you need to wait till then to find out whos magic plastic holders work the best. Nobody knows what holder will be worth the most long term. I know PSA seems to be bullet proof with all the scandals they have gone through with no problems but maybe the next one will cause the sheeple to wake up.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

But I am a collector and not a seller. And I do notice that PSA seem to get a premium price especially on higher end. I think the cards you are referring to shouldn't make too much of a difference but for resale it's PSA. Who knows what will happen in 20 years. Things can shift. Subway over took McDonalds in total US stores and now they are closing down stores and getting themselves in trouble because their product has become stale.

Steve

The “deep fried” look of McDonalds grading is a red flag for me. I also worry about the long term effect of the salt on the cards.

The Subway slab however, if not microwaved, is well suited for entombing the “tall boy” cards. Just don’t order the meat balls and ask for any sauce you choose on the side.

[marvymelvin]

Resale value: PSA
Look and eye appeal: SGC

The jury is not even close on both accounts.

I think it's interesting that every time a thread like this is posted, everyone mentions the resale value when it comes to selling PSA graded cards and hardly ever brings up the relative value of buying SGC graded cards. You likely will get more money reselling PSA graded cards, but if you're interested in collecting quality cards you can get more bang for your buck buying SGC graded cards with eye appeal.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

I think it's interesting that every time a thread like this is posted, everyone mentions the resale value when it comes to selling PSA graded cards and hardly ever brings up the relative value of buying SGC graded cards. You likely will get more money reselling PSA graded cards, but if you're interested in collecting quality cards you can get more bang for your buck buying SGC graded cards with eye appeal.

100%. And for me - I collect rarer 100+ year old cards- I don’t care what flip it’s in as long as it’s SGC or PSA; indeed, sometimes there are so few graded examples of what I am after that grade, let alone grading company, is wholly irrelevant (see attached). And I love picking up great looking T and E cards in an SGC 50 case for less than what people are paying for worse looking versions in PSA 3 flips. If you are collecting Tom Seaver or Bob Gibson rookies, I think PSA is (strongly) preferred to SGC. But when it comes to prewar, I will take either and will gladly pay less for an SGC flip than more for the same card in a PSA flip.

[frankbmd]

Looking only at resale value only without looking at the cost of acquisition confounds me, if you are considering cards that are already graded.

Your margin, which should be considered on a percentage basis, requires both numbers.

If you do not overpay for SGC or even BVG, your ultimate margin should be equivalent.

I have tracked margins in my collection for over 10 years, and when it comes to ROI (return on investment percentage),

PSA=SGC=BVG

I realize that I am considered a heretic here for making this argument, but I have the data to prove it.

My mantra is

Buy the card, but consider the holder to determine the purchase price. I am not a PSA guy, an SGC guy or a BVG guy.

If, on the other hand, you are considering grading previously ungraded cards, PSA is probably the best choice due to the Registry effect, for higher end Registry worthy cards.

If you are buying SGC cards or BVG cards with the intent to crossover to PSA for profit, good luck. That’s not my game.

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Looking only at resale value only without looking at the cost of acquisition confounds me, if you are considering cards that are already graded.

Your margin, which should be considered on a percentage basis, requires both numbers.

If you do not overpay for SGC or even BVG, your ultimate margin should be equivalent.

I have tracked margins in my collection for over 10 years, and when it comes to ROI (return on investment percentage),

PSA=SGC=BVG

I realize that I am considered a heretic here for making this argument, but I have the data to prove it.

My mantra is

Buy the card, but consider the holder to determine the purchase price. I am not a PSA guy, an SGC guy or a BVG guy.

If, on the other hand, you are considering grading previously ungraded cards, PSA is probably the best choice due to the Registry effect, for higher end Registry worthy cards.

If you are buying SGC cards or BVG cards with the intent to crossover to PSA for profit, good luck. That’s not my game.

I agree with you and believe you when it comes to ROI because I've experienced similar results. Its all relative to what you initially pay and eye appeal will also close the gap some when/if the time comes to sell

[boneheadandrube]

I prefer to pay less for the same card in a holder that looks better to me. The key is you have to be able to judge condition on your own and purchase the card instead of the holder.

Its true that when you go to sell it could be for less, but you paid less in the first place. I guess its hard for some to understand that and buyers premiums?

If you are buying raw and submitting for profit, then sure send to PSA. The problem I have with sending to them is they are terribly inconsistent with pre war cards. It seems like 10-20% of every submission I make gets graded inaccurately. How do I come to that conclusion? Because when I resubmit those cards two months later they get different grades again, and if I send them two months after that some will get the same grades they did the first time and some will get new ones altogether. I have seen T206's go from Altered to 6, N5 to 5.5 and vice versa over and over.

I think as a business its not in their best interest to get the grades on discontinued cards exactly right the first time, they'll never see it again. They have to be aware that people en masse just resubmit cards if they don't like the grades, so why fix the consistency problem? In fact, how about a couple of times a year they should rotate graders from newer Pokemon non sport and the like into older baseball cards just to make it 25%. That would never happen...

To me SGC is much more consistent with pre war and there isn't a premium for popularity. If you can determine which cards you want without relying on the holder to tell you, you can spend less on the same thing.

*It seems like there is more discussion about the monetary aspects of cards in PSA holders than the actual attributes of the cards themselves..unless they are obviously altered.

[Rhotchkiss]

Ok, here is the real question- a very pretty 52 Topps Mantle PSA 9 sells for $2.88mm. How much does that same exact card in an SGC 96 flip sell for?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

I prefer to pay less for the same card in a holder that looks better to me. The key is you have to be able to judge condition on your own and purchase the card instead of the holder.

Its true that when you go to sell it could be for less, but you paid less in the first place. I guess its hard for some to understand that and buyers premiums?

If you are buying raw and submitting for profit, then sure send to PSA. The problem I have with sending to them is they are terribly inconsistent with pre war cards. It seems like 10-20% of every submission I make gets graded inaccurately. How do I come to that conclusion? Because when I resubmit those cards two months later they get different grades again, and if I send them two months after that some will get the same grades they did the first time and some will get new ones altogether. I have seen T206's go from Altered to 6, N5 to 5.5 and vice versa over and over.

I think as a business its not in their best interest to get the grades on discontinued cards exactly right the first time, they'll never see it again. They have to be aware that people en masse just resubmit cards if they don't like the grades, so why fix the consistency problem? In fact, how about a couple of times a year they should rotate graders from newer Pokemon non sport and the like into older baseball cards just to make it 25%. That would never happen...

To me SGC is much more consistent with pre war and there isn't a premium for popularity. If you can determine which cards you want without relying on the holder to tell you, you can spend less on the same thing.

*It seems like there is more discussion about the monetary aspects of cards in PSA holders than the actual attributes of the cards themselves..unless they are obviously altered.

+1
100% couldn’t agree more.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by marvymelvin

Resale value: PSA
Look and eye appeal: SGC

The jury is not even close on both accounts.

Bingo! Case in point, two nice 1914 Ty Cobb Cracker Jacks, say exmt, one in a PSA holder the other SGC's. Which one beautifies the card and which one is sort of blah? And while it may only be a temporary situation, any cards today sent to PSA might be returned graded about the time of the first Mars landing.

[Marchillo]

I think most people on this thread are in agreement with what most people are saying. When I'm buying cards I don't care what holders they are in SGC/PSA/BVG. Im buying the card and use grade as a guide not the primary reason I am buying that card. I use SGC to grade cards I'm submitting for all the reasons I stated above. But if I had any real high end cards I was planning on selling (ie PSA 9 Mantle) it's PSA all the way.

But the cards I have range under $250. I think the ROI people are talking about applies to my collection as well so I'll go with SGC.

[mantlefan]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

I am SGC's biggest fan. I go to shows and don't have to wait in lines, I think their cases are sharper, customer service is top notch. I always talk to the same two people when I call, they've never failed me on estimated delivery times.

Steve

I was at the big Hofstra show today on Long Island. You're right....there was no waiting at the SGC booth.....there were no customers! Beckett on the other hand had a line of at least 15 people. Draw your own conclusions.

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by mantlefan

I was at the big Hofstra show today on Long Island. You're right....there was no waiting at the SGC booth.....there were no customers! Beckett on the other hand had a line of at least 15 people. Draw your own conclusions.

Follow the crowd! Follow the crowd! The conclusion I draw from that is marketing supersedes all else for some. How many of those people were getting pre war cards graded or were there to validate the authenticity of an autograph that a player just handed to them? To each their own, but I feel less stupid when I use my own common sense instead of a large company's turnstile judgement in a subjective matter.

[CMIZ5290]

Wow! I was wondering when someone was going to post a thread about this subject

[mantlefan]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

Follow the crowd! Follow the crowd! The conclusion I draw from that is marketing supersedes all else for some. How many of those people were getting pre war cards graded or were there to validate the authenticity of an autograph that a player just handed to them? To each their own, but I feel less stupid when I use my own common sense instead of a large company's turnstile judgement in a subjective matter.

Fewer customers = less income = cutting back on staff = less bells and whistles (check out the SGC Registry if you can find it) = eventual disappearance from the business world.

[NiceDocter]

Thanks to all who have replied and wow lots of food for thought. As I have done for all these years, another option is doing NOTHING and just keeping the cards raw.... I really doubt I am selling any time soon but your never know, you cant take em with you and if down the road someone needed to liquidate your holdings it might be easier on them if the cards were already graded. I probably should have said in my original post that I wasnt even considering grading low value cards, just the HOFers and the like. We do have JSA showing up at our local shows for autograph authentication but I have never seen a card grading company yet. Im not too keen on mailing stuff off but I guess thats the way of the world these days. In any event I very much enjoyed all your replies with some great insights and opinions.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by mantlefan

I was at the big Hofstra show today on Long Island. You're right....there was no waiting at the SGC booth.....there were no customers! Beckett on the other hand had a line of at least 15 people. Draw your own conclusions.

A perception is reality issue here. Beckett is well known for grading modern (shiny) cards and since there are tons more modern (shiny) cards than extant pre-war cards; where is the line going to be longer.

Also, and this depends on the show, Beckett offers what is called RCR (Raw Card Review) and your card can get an grade during the show. Did SGC offer such a service at that show? If Beckett did and SGC didn't -- then there is another way for the Beckett line to be longer/

Those two things, among others. can factor into lines and customers at shows for the TPG's

Rich

[the 'stache]

Exactly what I was going to say.

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

A perception is reality issue here. Beckett is well known for grading modern (shiny) cards and since there are tons more modern (shiny) cards than extant pre-war cards; where is the line going to be longer.

Also, and this depends on the show, Beckett offers what is called RCR (Raw Card Review) and your card can get an grade during the show. Did SGC offer such a service at that show? If Beckett did and SGC didn't -- then there is another way for the Beckett line to be longer/

Those two things, among others. can factor into lines and customers at shows for the TPG's

Rich

[Snapolit1]

Beckett could be beyond reproach ethically, and I have no reason to believe they are anything but, but I simply don't like the way their holders look. Is that because I've gotten use to other holders? Probably. I just see their holders and am unenthused. Every time. Too much information, bland presentation.

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

A perception is reality issue here. Beckett is well known for grading modern (shiny) cards and since there are tons more modern (shiny) cards than extant pre-war cards; where is the line going to be longer.

Also, and this depends on the show, Beckett offers what is called RCR (Raw Card Review) and your card can get an grade during the show. Did SGC offer such a service at that show? If Beckett did and SGC didn't -- then there is another way for the Beckett line to be longer/

Those two things, among others. can factor into lines and customers at shows for the TPG's

Rich

[Snapolit1]

My experience at shows over the last 2 years has been PSA has long lines that I won't waste my time on, because I have limited time in my life and didn't drive to a show to stand on a line for an hour and a half, and SGC has far fewer people and is typically disorganized and also frustrating.

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

A perception is reality issue here. Beckett is well known for grading modern (shiny) cards and since there are tons more modern (shiny) cards than extant pre-war cards; where is the line going to be longer.

Also, and this depends on the show, Beckett offers what is called RCR (Raw Card Review) and your card can get an grade during the show. Did SGC offer such a service at that show? If Beckett did and SGC didn't -- then there is another way for the Beckett line to be longer/

Those two things, among others. can factor into lines and customers at shows for the TPG's

Rich