SGC versus PSA slabs
 

Im sure this has been covered before so please excuse me in advance. For vintage cards (1950 and before) is it better to use SGC or PSA as far as values and marketablity in the future for my collection ( in case I ever want to sell or trade any in the future). I would appreciate any input from experiences you have had and links to any old threads if this has already been addressed. And thanks to the many great collectors and dealers out there in Net54 land that have made this great hobby even greater for an old guy like me! I do have a lot of stuff all ungraded probably in the range of authentic to maybe PSA 6 nothing like 9s and 10s.....including HOFers and strip cards.

I prefer PSA
 

I prefer PSA because they tend to consistently sell for more money, there are of course examples to the contrary. I also prefer the sleekness of their holders and really prefer the newer holder with the extra barcode and newer holograms. I think they are much easier to store and i have found them to be more liquid (at retail pricing) when selling. I understand some prefer the look of the SGC holder I for one do not and I detest the gasket for several reasons. Either company will in my opinion do a pretty good job of grading but in the end I am a psa guy. I figure on this board you will however, get more people telling you SGC, because they cultivated a good relationship with this board unlike PSA.

Well, for many of those cards, they're not worth grading by either company.

PSA has a new tool called "Auction Prices Realized" for free on their website that lets you see how sales of PSA cards on eBay and auctionhouses have been. Generally better conditioned cards are worth more in PSA slabs than SGC, unless you're talking about Pre-WWI, and then they're closer.

My general recommendation is to grade cards that will be worth $20 more after grading. Since it's a $7/card fee to grade with PSA now (under their bulk $99 and under specials), you're wasting money on grading if your ROI doesn't approach that number. Most commons in EX-MT or worse or even stars in VG-EX or worse aren't worth grading, and are better to sell raw or in sets.

SGC cards are a little cheaper to bulk grade, but without a useful set registry, they'll continue to lack value on the resale market. Now if PSA ever runs a $5.50 a card special again, it would be better to take advantage of that.

I am SGC's biggest fan. I go to shows and don't have to wait in lines, I think their cases are sharper, customer service is top notch. I always talk to the same two people when I call, they've never failed me on estimated delivery times.

But I am a collector and not a seller. And I do notice that PSA seem to get a premium price especially on higher end. I think the cards you are referring to shouldn't make too much of a difference but for resale it's PSA. Who knows what will happen in 20 years. Things can shift. Subway over took McDonalds in total US stores and now they are closing down stores and getting themselves in trouble because their product has become stale.

Steve

30 yrs ago most were fearful of grading companies ruining the hobby, now most everybody loves them. In 30 more yrs when youre ready to sell who knows?

If resell down the line is what youre after, get an iconic card like a 52 Mantle. Highest grade you can afford, then treat it like a stock. I wouldn't even mess with anything else since theres too many variables. Just a thought.

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If you are worried about prices in the future you need to wait till then to find out whos magic plastic holders work the best. Nobody knows what holder will be worth the most long term. I know PSA seems to be bullet proof with all the scandals they have gone through with no problems but maybe the next one will cause the sheeple to wake up.

The “deep fried” look of McDonalds grading is a red flag for me. I also worry about the long term effect of the salt on the cards.

The Subway slab however, if not microwaved, is well suited for entombing the “tall boy” cards. Just don’t order the meat balls and ask for any sauce you choose on the side.;)

Resale value: PSA
Look and eye appeal: SGC

The jury is not even close on both accounts.

I think its kind of funny
 

I think it's interesting that every time a thread like this is posted, everyone mentions the resale value when it comes to selling PSA graded cards and hardly ever brings up the relative value of buying SGC graded cards. You likely will get more money reselling PSA graded cards, but if you're interested in collecting quality cards you can get more bang for your buck buying SGC graded cards with eye appeal.

100%. And for me - I collect rarer 100+ year old cards- I don’t care what flip it’s in as long as it’s SGC or PSA; indeed, sometimes there are so few graded examples of what I am after that grade, let alone grading company, is wholly irrelevant (see attached). And I love picking up great looking T and E cards in an SGC 50 case for less than what people are paying for worse looking versions in PSA 3 flips. If you are collecting Tom Seaver or Bob Gibson rookies, I think PSA is (strongly) preferred to SGC. But when it comes to prewar, I will take either and will gladly pay less for an SGC flip than more for the same card in a PSA flip.

Looking only at resale value only without looking at the cost of acquisition confounds me, if you are considering cards that are already graded.

Your margin, which should be considered on a percentage basis, requires both numbers.

If you do not overpay for SGC or even BVG, your ultimate margin should be equivalent.

I have tracked margins in my collection for over 10 years, and when it comes to ROI (return on investment percentage),

PSA=SGC=BVG

I realize that I am considered a heretic here for making this argument, but I have the data to prove it.;)

My mantra is

Buy the card, but consider the holder to determine the purchase price. I am not a PSA guy, an SGC guy or a BVG guy.

If, on the other hand, you are considering grading previously ungraded cards, PSA is probably the best choice due to the Registry effect, for higher end Registry worthy cards.

If you are buying SGC cards or BVG cards with the intent to crossover to PSA for profit, good luck. That’s not my game.

I agree with you and believe you when it comes to ROI because I've experienced similar results. Its all relative to what you initially pay and eye appeal will also close the gap some when/if the time comes to sell

Sgc
 

I prefer to pay less for the same card in a holder that looks better to me. The key is you have to be able to judge condition on your own and purchase the card instead of the holder.

Its true that when you go to sell it could be for less, but you paid less in the first place. I guess its hard for some to understand that and buyers premiums?

If you are buying raw and submitting for profit, then sure send to PSA. The problem I have with sending to them is they are terribly inconsistent with pre war cards. It seems like 10-20% of every submission I make gets graded inaccurately. How do I come to that conclusion? Because when I resubmit those cards two months later they get different grades again, and if I send them two months after that some will get the same grades they did the first time and some will get new ones altogether. I have seen T206's go from Altered to 6, N5 to 5.5 and vice versa over and over.

I think as a business its not in their best interest to get the grades on discontinued cards exactly right the first time, they'll never see it again. They have to be aware that people en masse just resubmit cards if they don't like the grades, so why fix the consistency problem? In fact, how about a couple of times a year they should rotate graders from newer Pokemon non sport and the like into older baseball cards just to make it 25%. That would never happen...

To me SGC is much more consistent with pre war and there isn't a premium for popularity. If you can determine which cards you want without relying on the holder to tell you, you can spend less on the same thing.

*It seems like there is more discussion about the monetary aspects of cards in PSA holders than the actual attributes of the cards themselves..unless they are obviously altered.

Ok, here is the real question- a very pretty 52 Topps Mantle PSA 9 sells for $2.88mm. How much does that same exact card in an SGC 96 flip sell for?

+1
100% couldn’t agree more.

Drawing any conclusion about a grading company based on the results of a single card, and an outlier at that, would be scoffed at by even an average statistician. As I said before, the Registry effect for high end Registry worthy cards exists. I would venture to say that most of us do not play that game.

If PSA was the only option, would the hobby be better of?

Sgc
 

I was at the big Hofstra show today on Long Island. You're right....there was no waiting at the SGC booth.....there were no customers! Beckett on the other hand had a line of at least 15 people. Draw your own conclusions.

Who knows, but it’s not all that important to me because I couldn’t afford a 1952 Topps Mantle in a SGC or PSA 3 holder. A more interesting question might be what will his exact card sell for 5 years from now?

Follow the crowd! Follow the crowd! The conclusion I draw from that is marketing supersedes all else for some. How many of those people were getting pre war cards graded or were there to validate the authenticity of an autograph that a player just handed to them? To each their own, but I feel less stupid when I use my own common sense instead of a large company's turnstile judgement in a subjective matter.

Wow! I was wondering when someone was going to post a thread about this subject:rolleyes:

IMO, it would sell for higher than a PSA 8 price, maybe reaching close to $1M....It wouldn't smell what a PSA 9 would go for, not even close, period...

SGC 96 Mantle probably $750-$1M

Agree with this. Here is a hypothetical for other members on the board since Ryan proposed the potential idea. It is no secret that the board majority lies heavily in favor with SGC, not even close. If you had this Mantle in a PSA 9, would you cross it to SGC because of how nice their holders look? Or, would you keep it in the PSA holder because of financial reasons, honest answers please....

Easy answer...I wouldn't even consider crossing it. Then again, I don't have a rooting interest in any of the professional grading companies. Do I like SGC's holders? Sure. Do I like PSA well enough? Sure. I even like Beckett, if the price is right. It is the card within for me.

Bingo! Case in point, two nice 1914 Ty Cobb Cracker Jacks, say exmt, one in a PSA holder the other SGC's. Which one beautifies the card and which one is sort of blah? And while it may only be a temporary situation, any cards today sent to PSA might be returned graded about the time of the first Mars landing.

Of course not, no one cares about the aesthetics of the holder that much. No ones arguing that PSA doesn't bring more coin though

I think most people on this thread are in agreement with what most people are saying. When I'm buying cards I don't care what holders they are in SGC/PSA/BVG. Im buying the card and use grade as a guide not the primary reason I am buying that card. I use SGC to grade cards I'm submitting for all the reasons I stated above. But if I had any real high end cards I was planning on selling (ie PSA 9 Mantle) it's PSA all the way.

But the cards I have range under $250. I think the ROI people are talking about applies to my collection as well so I'll go with SGC.

Last year Memory Lane had 2 1949 Bowman Jackie Robinson rookie cards in their summer auction. The PSA 9 sold for 47k. The SGC 96 sold for 110k. Collectors will look at the card and pay more for exceptional cards in SGC holders.

There was an ebay coupon code recently where a buyer would save up to $100 on a $500 purchase, so I decided the time was right to grab up a pretty nice Mantle. In the end, I was down to looking at 1964 cards graded 7 by both PSA and SGC.

If I recall correctly, the SGC was priced at about $470 and the lowest PSA one was $625, with most being at $675 and way above that. If you look at these two cards, they have very similar top-to-bottom centering and the corners of the SGC card are much sharper overall.

Attachment 313377

To me it was absolutely worth it going with SGC and paying a minimum of $150 less for the card. When the time comes to sell him in the future, though, I will have to figure things out to get a better return like you seemingly always get with PSA cards.

Both SGC & PSA are great, PSA because of their Registry gets more for post-war, but I see little difference in pre-war prices. Holders are both solid, although I hate the PSA floating card one. I lean a bit towards SGC from a lot of what’s been said in the thread of their accuracy and communications, but can’t go wrong with either.


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PSA vs SGC
 

Fewer customers = less income = cutting back on staff = less bells and whistles (check out the SGC Registry if you can find it) = eventual disappearance from the business world.

thank you
 

Thanks to all who have replied and wow lots of food for thought. As I have done for all these years, another option is doing NOTHING and just keeping the cards raw.... I really doubt I am selling any time soon but your never know, you cant take em with you and if down the road someone needed to liquidate your holdings it might be easier on them if the cards were already graded. I probably should have said in my original post that I wasnt even considering grading low value cards, just the HOFers and the like. We do have JSA showing up at our local shows for autograph authentication but I have never seen a card grading company yet. Im not too keen on mailing stuff off but I guess thats the way of the world these days. In any event I very much enjoyed all your replies with some great insights and opinions.

A perception is reality issue here. Beckett is well known for grading modern (shiny) cards and since there are tons more modern (shiny) cards than extant pre-war cards; where is the line going to be longer.

Also, and this depends on the show, Beckett offers what is called RCR (Raw Card Review) and your card can get an grade during the show. Did SGC offer such a service at that show? If Beckett did and SGC didn't -- then there is another way for the Beckett line to be longer/

Those two things, among others. can factor into lines and customers at shows for the TPG's

Rich

Exactly what I was going to say.

Beckett could be beyond reproach ethically, and I have no reason to believe they are anything but, but I simply don't like the way their holders look. Is that because I've gotten use to other holders? Probably. I just see their holders and am unenthused. Every time. Too much information, bland presentation.

My experience at shows over the last 2 years has been PSA has long lines that I won't waste my time on, because I have limited time in my life and didn't drive to a show to stand on a line for an hour and a half, and SGC has far fewer people and is typically disorganized and also frustrating.

In my experience, 19th century SGC sells for as much as or more than PSA. By the time you get to Goudey, PSA is more. So somewhere in between the line is crossed where PSA is more. Don't know if it's T206 or not because I've seen it go both ways with T206.

Somebody said it
 

PSA for value
SGC for looks

Nearly my entire collection is SGC. I am a collector and have pretty rare items where the PSA pops are low or non-existent. I also like the people at SGC, though the turn around times the last few years have been quite terrible on my submissions.

I thought his rookie was the 1948 Leaf.

The is no 1948 Leaf set for baseball. There is a 1949 Leaf set for baseball and 1948 and 1949 Leaf sets for football. There also a boxing set. Jackie Robinson's RCs are 1949 Leaf and 1949 Bowman.

Here's my thoughts on grading. The new company in town will be Beckett!!! No, I don't grade with Beckett, but I see the hand writing on the wall. Prices of Beckett cards are on the rise and quite often in line with PSA and SGC. Why? In the early 90's when all the shiney stuff came out all the new collectors went to Beckett. Now these collectors are much older and going back in time with their collections. Guess what? Most will stay with Beckett as they have been in the past. I'm an old man and won't be switching graders, but I see Beckett as the #1 grader in the future.

PSA IMO will always be on top in regards to pre 80’s cardboard. Show after show people give me the ah it’s a shame it’s in a SGC holder I only do PSA. Can you try and cross it. No buy the card not the holder. My response. People are brainwashed by PSA. For as much as they Bi$ch and Complain about their service I don’t see things changing anytime soon. Check there lines at the National.

Funny post.

I feel Beckett is on the level of PSA when it comes to the modern market, in part because of their transparency surrounding the 4 sub-grades. I’m not sure why they stopped doing this for vintage, but it would seem to be a reasonable way to distinguish their product from that of the competitoon.

His rookie is the 1947 Bond Bread Portrait with facsimile (pictured) or the cropped corner Bond Bread (see post #1 in the April pickup thread). Each pre-date the 1948 (actually ’49 Leaf) and 1949 Bowman by at least a year and a half and were not just distributed regionally as once believed.

See above post

Although I have never sent a card in for grading, the research/learning I have done trying to educate myself has proven to me that SGC is, by far, way more consistent than PSA.

Also, and although I have only been on the boards/forums for a couple years, I don't recall ever reading/seeing scandals like I have with PSA.

Imo, with society seeming to get dumber every year, I don't think we'll ever see anyone take over the #1 ranking of PSA even though, imo, SGC should be #1 due to their consistency/accuracy when it comes to their grading.

Money rules, and PSA knows that so they also know they can afford to be less consistent knowing full well, people will continue to flock to them with their cards.

Hopefully someday honesty and consistency returns to the hobby, but I am not holding my breath. :(

You are entitled to your opinion as to what a rookie card is. I will stick with the one that was the standard 35 years ago when I started collecting again and that I have known since, that only national issues are rookie cards. Looking at PSA's registry, I see that they agree with me. I see that for their rookie card collections you need either the 49 Bowman or Leaf card.

+1.....

How many high grade SGC graded and exceptional T206s would you like to buy? The Doctor is in.....I have many.....