the list (of criminals) is revealed

[AddieJoss]

So with this new information I hope two things will happen:

1.) The sports collectible auction "industry" will consolidate to the most trust worthy, best auction houses with great customer service. I am sure many of have our favorites as well as ones we are not fond of. We have already seen great expansion of the auction houses over the past ~10 years, and already started to see some contraction. If that contraction continues it will be good for the hobby (I'm not saying it boils down to 2 or 3 houses, but there a ton today) as sellers and bidders will have confidence in the process.

2.) More dealers and collectors will "sell" their cards and not just list in auction houses. I can remember 10+ years ago, when one would go to a large card show, there were so many great cards available for sale. Now it is challenging to purchase very good and great cards at a show. You can likely view them in an upcoming auction, but can not buy them. Often when I go to the National, I'll move on to a table and ask about a card (since virtually no cards are priced) and then find out it isn't for sale.

I know this news that comes out has meaningful negative implications. I'm simply looking for what, if any good may arise as I hope our industry cleans up and moves on.

Cory Weiser

[slidekellyslide]

Kevin Keating's response to his inclusion on the list

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=217793

[mickeymao34]

i believe some shillers shill because they don't wanna lose they're pants off. AH's set reserves at crazy low reserves. This is indeed not in favor of the consignor. AHs only care if item sells b/c bottom line is they still come out with a consignment fee and the only loser is the consignor.Perhaps a solution to this may be letting the consignor set his/her own reserve. At least that would eliminate those shillers who shill to avoid a loss. Its better for the consignor to buy they're own items back than take a loss and letting consignors set the reserve might solve that.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by mickeymao34

i believe some shillers shill because they don't wanna lose they're pants off. AH's set reserves at crazy low reserves. This is indeed not in favor of the consignor. AHs only care if item sells b/c bottom line is they still come out with a consignment fee and the only loser is the consignor.Perhaps a solution to this may be letting the consignor set his/her own reserve. At least that would eliminate those shillers who shill to avoid a loss. Its better for the consignor to buy they're own items back than take a loss and letting consignors set the reserve might solve that.

I certainly understand the impulse: I lost a lot of money on some items that I sold in 2014 because IMO the AH set far too low an opening bid. The next time I consigned items for sale I required that the AH either set a reserve or guarantee me a minimum. There are enough alternatives out there for a seller to find an AH that won't put all of the risk on them. Or just sell your crap on eBay and set your own parameters. Regardless, not cheating other collectors isn't an option, it is a basic ethical value. Allen and crew lacked it and now they have to spend years in the pokey as a result. Good. I hope it hurts.

[Snapolit1]

I'm not trying to excuse anyone's crappy wrongdoing, but is there really anyone here who didn't know shill bidding goes on in auctions? Really? I've known people asking friends to bid on their ebay auctions for 25 years. I'm not excusing anything, and the fact that the principles of auction houses were doing this is despicable, but the level of professed shock is really kind of stunning.

PS. Restaurant us lousy fish and put it in the stew; cops write a lot of tickets to meet quotas at the end of the month; doctors prescribe crap to get a commission; teachers play with the grades when their pay is dependent on it; bartenders give lousy vodka and lousy pours when you are not looking; and the guy in the sneaker store is going to try to talk you into the most expensive ones he sells.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I'm not trying to excuse anyone's crappy wrongdoing, but is there really anyone here who didn't know shill bidding goes on in auctions? Really? I've known people asking friends to bid on their ebay auctions for 25 years. I'm not excusing anything, and the fact that the principles of auction houses were doing this is despicable, but the level of professed shock is really kind of stunning.

PS. Restaurant us lousy fish and put it in the stew; cops write a lot of tickets to meet quotas at the end of the month; doctors prescribe crap to get a commission; teachers play with the grades when their pay is dependent on it; bartenders give lousy vodka and lousy pours when you are not looking; and the guy in the sneaker store is going to try to talk you into the most expensive ones he sells.

Dear Son:

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Love,

Mom.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I'm not trying to excuse anyone's crappy wrongdoing, but is there really anyone here who didn't know shill bidding goes on in auctions? Really? I've known people asking friends to bid on their ebay auctions for 25 years. I'm not excusing anything, and the fact that the principles of auction houses were doing this is despicable, but the level of professed shock is really kind of stunning.

PS. Restaurant us lousy fish and put it in the stew; cops write a lot of tickets to meet quotas at the end of the month; doctors prescribe crap to get a commission; teachers play with the grades when their pay is dependent on it; bartenders give lousy vodka and lousy pours when you are not looking; and the guy in the sneaker store is going to try to talk you into the most expensive ones he sells.

I find your "teachers play with the grades when their pay is dependent on it" statement really damn offensive.

[mark evans]

Double-crossing the FBI and DOJ on his cooperation agreement was about the dumbest thing Allen could have done, short of the underlying crimes. The Justice Dep't takes obstruction very seriously and Allen, accordingly, got what he deserved.

[timn1]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I find your "teachers play with the grades when their pay is dependent on it" statement really damn offensive.

Indeed. I have taught college since I was 23 (33 years) and not only have I never "played with a grade" to make or save money, I have even never heard of such a thing happening.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by mickeymao34

i believe some shillers shill because they don't wanna lose they're pants off. AH's set reserves at crazy low reserves. This is indeed not in favor of the consignor. AHs only care if item sells b/c bottom line is they still come out with a consignment fee and the only loser is the consignor.Perhaps a solution to this may be letting the consignor set his/her own reserve. At least that would eliminate those shillers who shill to avoid a loss. Its better for the consignor to buy they're own items back than take a loss and letting consignors set the reserve might solve that.

Shilling can be a viable strategy for consignors, but shouldn't be allowed by the AH's in fairness to the other bidders. If you're a consignor, get a decent reserve or minimum bid or find some other way to sell your items.