Extremely worrisome possible trend.

[ALR-bishop]

Maybe the guy was just trying to get a laugh out of Doug

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Maybe the guy was just trying to get a laugh out of Doug

I always consider double reverse psychology as a motive!! (I seriously consider it.....maybe not always, but often)

No way selling them (themselves) would be illegal unless you committed fraud somehow while doing it.

[JustinD]

Definitely not illegal, but completely classless. Contributing to the death of a hobby to make 25 bucks is just sad.

Most of us will all be here and collecting years from now, but one of the nice thing about the grading services is they offer a bit of security to the uninformed. We tend to get so uppity on this site about "educating yourself", "buyer beware", and "paying for opinions". Most of us could be considered well above the normal collector in the things we focus on. I still find it weird I end up teaching dealers at shows and shops about items they are clueless about or fakes on display. This is their job, not mine and I chose to learn more.

What is the reason to join this hobby if there is no safety net while learning? When you lose out on every one of your purchases during those building years because all you bought were mostly fake or altered cards, are you losing faith the day you find this out?

We need reliable grading services to offer assurance to those that are not experts. We need that new flow of collectors and investors. Think about it...many cards are passing by collectors and going to the investor market. Do you think that most buyers of 52 Mantles at the moment are true knowledgable collectors or like the Wagner has become, investors with huge disposable income buying a display piece? What happens to the value of those Mantles when that market of investors drops out due to lack of trust or faith?

Of course TPGs are opinion, of course they are human and thus make human error, of course the system is not perfect. However, the element of something fixable, like a resealable slab, removable flips, etc can be fixed. They need to focus on this crap now.

Some easy fixes -
Better slabs - beckett is killing at this now. The others need change asap.
Photo databases - should have started years ago.
Flips affixed to the slab. - flips should be adhesively stuck to the slab with the "void" wording that appears when peeled. Much like the labels on gas pumps to avoid tampering.

When I can go right on ebay and buy flips like this and then run another quick search and get empty slabs -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-EMPTY-GRAD...oAAOSw5IJWf5UV

...the TPGs need to step it up.

[doug.goodman]

Contributing to the death of a hobby to make 25 bucks is just sad.

The existence of "the people who get paid for their opinions" has contributed more to the "death of the hobby" than all the flip sellers in the world combined.

Oh wait, maybe I misunderstood what you meant, do "the people who get paid for their opinions" charge $25?


I won't even comment on the words "reliable grading services" being used in conjunction with the words "to offer assurance".


When it comes to getting paid opinions on my stuff, I always think the best option would be Dmitri Young, he seems to have an eye for great cards.

Doug "Al is probably right" Goodman

[JustinD]

Obviously a difference in opinion and not poking for a fight, but if you think that some reassurance is worse that zero, I don't see how that adds up.

The entire paragraph about how the system is not perfect seems to be overlooked, and to assume that newbies and monied investors are going to keep posting record sales prices on blind faith seems hopeful at best.

As for Dmitri, if your reference was as to him pioneering the multiple submit to get what he wants, whatever. Again, like I said, human error is unremovable, crappy materials are totally fixable.

I don't know jack about which is the best toaster, vacuum, or electric car, but people for years have asked consumer reports for opinions. Are they perfect? Hell no, but at least it's a slight tilt in the consumers favor who knows jack squat about something.

[ALR-bishop]

One thing I know for sure about Doug....he is not a serial submitter....or advocate of same.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

One thing I know for sure about Doug....he is not a serial submitter....or advocate of same.

Totally not accusing of such, I just assumed that was the point of the Dmitri reference as he easily arguably was.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

One thing I know for sure about Doug ... or advocate of same.

Al, Al, Al. Usually, you read me like a book, but this time you're off the mark.

I think EVERYBODY should get ALL of their stuff graded, because even though the people who get paid for their opinions occasionally make mistakes, they are only human, and eventually they tend to get it right, especially if Dmitri Young is the submitter (or re-submitter). I have heard that Mr. Young is starting a new business submitting cards for collectors. He will make a fortune, and collectors will win with the higher grades that they would receive.