Extremely worrisome possible trend.

[Buythatcard]

Very disturbing and it must be illegal. Doesn't matter whether it's BCCG, SGC, PSA, you know the intention of the buyer will be to sell a card using one of the labels.

I wonder whether if any of these grading companies would try to stop this if they knew it was happening.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Very disturbing and it must be illegal. Doesn't matter whether it's BCCG, SGC, PSA, you know the intention of the buyer will be to sell a card using one of the labels.

I wonder whether if any of these grading companies would try to stop this if they knew it was happening.

not illegal to sell the labels..no law against it...someone may be making art of them them....maybe a bunch of cut up flips to make a psa 10 mantle flip....maybe people like looking at the flips more than the cards..

after all Sell the holder not the card..

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

not illegal to sell the labels..no law against it...someone may be making art of them them....maybe a bunch of cut up flips to make a psa 10 mantle flip....maybe people like looking at the flips more than the cards..

after all Sell the holder not the card..

You can't seriously be condoning this. Sure it may not be illegal, but your statements sound more of an encouragement than an indictment.

[ullmandds]

while the "idea" of people selling flips concerns me a bit...these particular flips...exept maybe the rose don't worry me much.

I'm much more concerned about people making their own flips than this.

[Mr. Zipper]

This should be reported to eBay because it appears it may be against their COA policy.

"Blank COAs and LOAs" and "COAs and LOAs as stand-alone items" are specifically not allowed. In my view, these items fall into that category.

http://pages.ebay.com/am/en-us/help/...utographs.html

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

while the "idea" of people selling flips concerns me a bit...these particular flips...exept maybe the rose don't worry me much.

I'm much more concerned about people making their own flips than this.

I think honestly what this shows is something I had not thought of before.

Making a fake flip is completely unnecessary. All the holograms and UPC codes mean nothing if you can just crack a card for the flip toss it in a fake slab and resubmit for another.

I now think the slab is the "end all" for security bar none.

Think about it, if the bad guys can just crack a slab; no matter what you have to legitimize it...even RFID chips. It's jack.

Beckett slabs are really moving up my list lately as what I tend to trust most.

I feel a lot of people are not realizing the bigger picture. I could care less the cards these flips are for. Other than the Rose, these are cards that are so off my radar it is insane.

It's the idea that people are selling flips now and the grading companies need to take note.

How much could a real scammer make re subbing a 52 mantle hi-grade 7 times and moving those flips?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ksabet

You can't seriously be condoning this. Sure it may not be illegal, but your statements sound more of an encouragement than an indictment.

doesn't matter if condoning or not or reasoning...if its not illegal like you say people can do what they want......I never care about their reasoning...a lot of sellers say they are selling their collection to pay medical bills or taxes but holds off for years to get an over market value....or people buy cards from people saying they are keeping their cards in their personal collection to get a lower price or make the sale but then consign them a month later...

I don't care why a person is selling a card or flip or why they want to buy it ..can't police the world and people make up things all the time in the card world..

it does appear against ebay policy though...but not illegal

[doug.goodman]

Very disturbing and it must be illegal. Doesn't matter whether it's BCCG, SGC, PSA, you know the intention of the buyer will be to sell a card using one of the labels.

I wonder whether if any of these grading companies would try to stop this if they knew it was happening.

Laughing out loud.

What exactly would be illegal about it?

I have hundreds of labels from all the stuff I have cracked over the years, I never thought about the fact that I could sell them, I just kept them because I'm a packrat.

Maybe the guy selling them is just trying to f... with all you guys who swear by the "people who get paid for their opinions", I know I'm considering it.

Hahahahaha,

Doug "there are worse ways to have fun" Goodman

[ALR-bishop]

Maybe the guy was just trying to get a laugh out of Doug

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Maybe the guy was just trying to get a laugh out of Doug

I always consider double reverse psychology as a motive!! (I seriously consider it.....maybe not always, but often)

No way selling them (themselves) would be illegal unless you committed fraud somehow while doing it.

[JustinD]

Definitely not illegal, but completely classless. Contributing to the death of a hobby to make 25 bucks is just sad.

Most of us will all be here and collecting years from now, but one of the nice thing about the grading services is they offer a bit of security to the uninformed. We tend to get so uppity on this site about "educating yourself", "buyer beware", and "paying for opinions". Most of us could be considered well above the normal collector in the things we focus on. I still find it weird I end up teaching dealers at shows and shops about items they are clueless about or fakes on display. This is their job, not mine and I chose to learn more.

What is the reason to join this hobby if there is no safety net while learning? When you lose out on every one of your purchases during those building years because all you bought were mostly fake or altered cards, are you losing faith the day you find this out?

We need reliable grading services to offer assurance to those that are not experts. We need that new flow of collectors and investors. Think about it...many cards are passing by collectors and going to the investor market. Do you think that most buyers of 52 Mantles at the moment are true knowledgable collectors or like the Wagner has become, investors with huge disposable income buying a display piece? What happens to the value of those Mantles when that market of investors drops out due to lack of trust or faith?

Of course TPGs are opinion, of course they are human and thus make human error, of course the system is not perfect. However, the element of something fixable, like a resealable slab, removable flips, etc can be fixed. They need to focus on this crap now.

Some easy fixes -
Better slabs - beckett is killing at this now. The others need change asap.
Photo databases - should have started years ago.
Flips affixed to the slab. - flips should be adhesively stuck to the slab with the "void" wording that appears when peeled. Much like the labels on gas pumps to avoid tampering.

When I can go right on ebay and buy flips like this and then run another quick search and get empty slabs -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-EMPTY-GRAD...oAAOSw5IJWf5UV

...the TPGs need to step it up.

[doug.goodman]

Contributing to the death of a hobby to make 25 bucks is just sad.

The existence of "the people who get paid for their opinions" has contributed more to the "death of the hobby" than all the flip sellers in the world combined.

Oh wait, maybe I misunderstood what you meant, do "the people who get paid for their opinions" charge $25?


I won't even comment on the words "reliable grading services" being used in conjunction with the words "to offer assurance".


When it comes to getting paid opinions on my stuff, I always think the best option would be Dmitri Young, he seems to have an eye for great cards.

Doug "Al is probably right" Goodman

[JustinD]

Obviously a difference in opinion and not poking for a fight, but if you think that some reassurance is worse that zero, I don't see how that adds up.

The entire paragraph about how the system is not perfect seems to be overlooked, and to assume that newbies and monied investors are going to keep posting record sales prices on blind faith seems hopeful at best.

As for Dmitri, if your reference was as to him pioneering the multiple submit to get what he wants, whatever. Again, like I said, human error is unremovable, crappy materials are totally fixable.

I don't know jack about which is the best toaster, vacuum, or electric car, but people for years have asked consumer reports for opinions. Are they perfect? Hell no, but at least it's a slight tilt in the consumers favor who knows jack squat about something.