Can't fight City Hall- eBay protecting their large sellers (probstein content)

[sportscardtheory]

I guess I'm wondering why this thread is about probstein? Do ANY ebay consignors refund shilled auctions, ban shilling accounts and aggressively pursue shillers?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I guess I'm wondering why this thread is about probstein? Do ANY ebay consignors refund shilled auctions, ban shilling accounts and aggressively pursue shillers?

because he is one of the most prolific ebay sellers...who consistently sells high quality vintage...and SHILLING is so prevalent in so many of his auctions...that's why!

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

because he is one of the most prolific ebay sellers...who consistently sells high quality vintage...and SHILLING is so prevalent in so many of his auctions...that's why!

Do you hold him to a higher standard than all other ebay consignors?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Do you hold him to a higher standard than all other ebay consignors?

me personally? NO! I know his auctions to be shilled at an extraordinary degree...so I DO NOT bid on them...ever!

[ullmandds]

This thread really should have been done after the 1st post or two...if you bid on Probsteins auctions you have noone to blame but yourself if u are shilled.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

This thread really should have been done after the 1st post or two...if you bid on Probsteins auctions you have noone to blame but yourself if u are shilled.

Agreed. I'm done with this thread. If people want to defend Probstein and continue to buy from him, then they get what they deserve.

[ejharrington]

Shilling is so hard to police / prove / stop you might as well legalize it. Kinda like steroids in baseball. People should set a price they wish to pay and stick to it. If you can't do that, then expect to be shilled.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Agreed. I'm done with this thread. If people want to defend Probstein and continue to buy from him, then they get what they deserve.

Cardboard with pictures of athletes?

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Agreed. I'm done with this thread. If people want to defend Probstein and continue to buy from him, then they get what they deserve.

You're right, David...i will get what we deserve...cardboard that I want to purchase and most of the time, under what my max bid is


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[SAllen2556]

As a collector, I don’t want anyone bidding on a card they don’t want to win, but artificially boosting the price of an eBay auction can occur in other ways besides the seller or the consigner directly shilling the card, so in the long run, what’s really the difference?

Say I’m selling what I believe to be a unique card on eBay. I set my price very high. I notice after I set my price that someone else is now auctioning the very same card and it looks like it will sell for much, much lower than mine, so I place a bid or two to jack up the price in order to protect the value of my card. Wouldn’t that have the same result to the eventual buyer of that card as if it were shilled? Should that also be illegal if it could be proven?

Shilling might as well be legal and accepted as part of the dynamics of an auction. After all, there is a risk, reward factor to the person who shills, and anyone can artificially increase an auction price if they have the guts to do it.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

Shilling might as well be legal and accepted as part of the dynamics of an auction. After all, there is a risk, reward factor to the person who shills, and anyone can artificially increase an auction price if they have the guts to do it.

Except it isn't, and not everyone does.

I don't shill my own auctions, and I cancel bids if they even give an appearance of shilling. Are you saying that I'm not selling correctly?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Except it isn't, and not everyone does.

I don't shill my own auctions, and I cancel bids if they even give an appearance of shilling. Are you saying that I'm not selling correctly?

The last honest man left standing.

[Runscott]

Peter, it might seem like I'm saying that, but I'm not. I think MOST ebay sellers run their auctions EXACTLY like I do. I disagree with the apologists' view that 'Everyone is probably doing it'. The problem is that the few who are certainly doing it, represent a massive amount of the card sales on ebay, so volume-wise it's a worse problem than 'a few sellers are cheating'.

[SAllen2556]

"I don't shill my own auctions, and I cancel bids if they even give an appearance of shilling. Are you saying that I'm not selling correctly?"

No. What I'm saying is artificially inflating an auction can be done by someone other than the buyer or seller and you might never know it happened. And it wouldn't be strictly defined by the law as shilling, but the effect would be the same to the buyer of the card.

I could bid on your auctions just to jack up the prices of your cards which I also happen to be selling at the moment for the benefit of the my own cards. How would you ever know? I just think it's a slippery slope and something that can't possibly be enforced. The lure of the mighty dollar will always win.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

"I don't shill my own auctions, and I cancel bids if they even give an appearance of shilling. Are you saying that I'm not selling correctly?"

No. What I'm saying is artificially inflating an auction can be done by someone other than the buyer or seller and you might never know it happened. And it wouldn't be strictly defined by the law as shilling, but the effect would be the same to the buyer of the card.

I could bid on your auctions just to jack up the prices of your cards which I also happen to be selling at the moment for the benefit of the my own cards. How would you ever know? I just think it's a slippery slope and something that can't possibly be enforced. The lure of the mighty dollar will always win.

That is an interesting argument, but it isn't shilling and isn't even vaguely on a slippery slope. If you aren't a friend of the seller and you have every intention of paying for the item, it is exactly what you just said it was: a collector putting a bid in to protect his investments.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

"I don't shill my own auctions, and I cancel bids if they even give an appearance of shilling. Are you saying that I'm not selling correctly?"

No. What I'm saying is artificially inflating an auction can be done by someone other than the buyer or seller and you might never know it happened. And it wouldn't be strictly defined by the law as shilling, but the effect would be the same to the buyer of the card.

I could bid on your auctions just to jack up the prices of your cards which I also happen to be selling at the moment for the benefit of the my own cards. How would you ever know? I just think it's a slippery slope and something that can't possibly be enforced. The lure of the mighty dollar will always win.

But if you bid on my auctions just to jack up the price, you run the risk of actually winning the auction, in which case I'd expect you to pay.

I understand what you're saying that an auction price isn't necessarily the true value of an item, but I think you'd have to agree that the scenario you present is far different than if I run up my own auction, or if I let my wife/kid/friend do it for me.

Ken

[Hot Springs Bathers]

With eBay's billing records wouldn't these instances be just the thing the FBI is looking for in the sports memorabilia business?

[Rollingstone206]

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