Can't fight City Hall- eBay protecting their large sellers (probstein content)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Lock him up and throw away the key!! Of course we should do the same to card doctors, agreed Jeff?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Lock him up and throw away the key!! Of course we should do the same to card doctors, agreed Jeff?

Hey leave us card doctors out of it. If the shillers can steal money and nobody cares we should be able to also.

By the way anybody looking for a Blue front 58 Hank Aaron, T206 Wagner, or a nice 52 Mantle? Cash only with no returns.

[freakhappy]

So what I get out of this is that shilling is not illegal to eBay, but no doubt unethical. So all one can do is protest Probstein's auctions and eBay in general.



Let me ask everyone here this question...Since eBay seems to not care about this and most everyone here wants Probstein's head, are you also protesting eBay as well, since they are allowing it? If you are not, you are also part of the problem in my eyes.

[ullmandds]

I'd surmise Ebay's and Probsteins evolutions are quite similar. Ebay started off as a great new global marketplace...forever changing the way we transact commerce...eventually greed/profits taking presedence turning ebay into a money taking whore.

I'm sure Probstein has evolved similarly.

[Jayworld]

Lots of really good thoughts on this thread, and some others that I don't agree with at all. Seems that the overall consensus for those who agree that shilling is wrong is that sellers often cannot police themselves due to sheer selling volume, but if a seller is alerted to a shill bidder and THEN does nothing to police that bidder (i.e.ban, etc.) then the problem lies with the seller. I agree with this wholeheartedly.

Also, the analogy earlier on Post #99 does not seem to jell with me; just because one person uses a BIN to purchase a card for $400 does NOT mean the value of the card is $400. The value of any card (imho) is what the trending price is of a card over many auctions/sales. We've seen how some cards sell for huge amounts (because of multiple factors, including TPG, rarity, condition, auction house, seller, number of bidders, etc.) and at other times for more reasonable amounts....

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Lock him up and throw away the key!! Of course we should do the same to card doctors, agreed Jeff?

I'm mainly concerned with shill bidders and their co-conspirators.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'm mainly concerned with shill bidders and their co-conspirators.

Yeah most card doctors probably have immunity by now anyhow.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah most card doctors probably have immunity by now anyhow.

Most shill bidders have statutes of limitations which have passed too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Most shill bidders have statutes of limitations which have passed too.

Maybe there's hope for cleaning up memorabilia, because I don't see it happening for cards.

[drcy]

I think collectors willing to readily buy from sellers they know act unethically and perhaps even break the law don't realize the significance of provenance as it relates to value-- especially over the long term. If it turns out the seller you procured many of your cards is shown to have knowingly sold altered cards, it will effect the resale value of your collection. Whether or not your high grade cards were, buyers will wonder if they were also altered. Many collectors simply won't be willing to touch your high graded cards or their skepticism will at least be reflected in their bidding when they found where you got them.

Many game used collectors have learned the lesson of how the value of LOAs sand items can drop after the sellers are sentenced for forgery and related law breaking, and how it can taint in the minds of buyers legitimate items obtained from the seller. And there's no reason card collectors purchasing from sellers they know act unethically and/or break the law can't learn a similar lesson.

[Rollingstone206]

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[Rollingstone206]

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by drcy

I think collectors willing to readily buy from sellers they know act unethically and perhaps even break the law don't realize the significance of provenance as it relates to value-- especially over the long term. If it turns out the seller you procured many of your cards is shown to have knowingly sold altered cards, it will effect the resale value of your collection. Whether or not your high grade cards were, buyers will wonder if they were also altered. Many collectors simply won't be willing to touch your high graded cards or their skepticism will at least be reflected in their bidding when they found where you got them.

Many game used collectors have learned the lesson of how the value of LOAs sand items can drop after the sellers are sentenced for forgery and related law breaking, and how it can taint in the minds of buyers legitimate items obtained from the seller. And there's no reason card collectors purchasing from sellers they know act unethically and/or break the law can't learn a similar lesson.

In my opinion, very few people care if cards are altered, as long as they are in holders. Oh they might pay lip service to it, but they are more than happy to turn a blind eye.