Problems with two championship rings in upcoming Heritage Auction

[sports-rings]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

So what it all boiled down to Michael, is that you didn't like the way HA went about their own business and how they decided to do their jobs? They did not do things fast enough for you is what all boils down to.

Bob are you just stirring the pot and twisting things to conform what you want to conclude?

It boils down to the consigner tried to get one over on the auction house and the collecting community.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by sports-rings

Bob are you just stirring the pot and twisting things to conform what you want to conclude?

It boils down to the consigner tried to get one over on the auction house and the collecting community.

And to think that this is such an honorable business.

[ramram]

Is it possible that an auction house might want to drag their feet on an investigation until after the auction concludes and only then clean up the mess with the winning bidder? Then it's not out there, before the auction concludes, for the masses to see? Just a thought.

Rob M.

[sports-rings]

Is it possible that an auction house might want to drag their feet on an investigation until after the auction concludes and only then clean up the mess with the winning bidder? Then it's not out there, before the auction concludes, for the masses to see? Just a thought.

If the winning bidder had a strict budget and was unable to bid on other items later in the auction or while attending the National after thinking he won an item. Should he be upset?

Would he be wrong to say "why didn't you guys tell me ahead of time there was an issue???"

And as far as proclaiming that Heritage did not follow my timetable - what would happen if I never heard back from Heritage and they never changed the auction? When is a good time to alert the community?

Five minutes before the live bidding starts on net54 so no one will see it?

An hour after the auction?

A day?

A week?

Bob, no offense but you have lost your objectivity on this matter. I realize I see things different than perhaps your clients do but your opinion seems to be in the minority here.

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by ramram

Is it possible that an auction house might want to drag their feet on an investigation until after the auction concludes and only then clean up the mess with the winning bidder? Then it's not out there, before the auction concludes, for the masses to see? Just a thought.

Rob M.

That's a very unethical approach to handling this type of situation.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by ramram

Is it possible that an auction house might want to drag their feet on an investigation until after the auction concludes and only then clean up the mess with the winning bidder? Then it's not out there, before the auction concludes, for the masses to see? Just a thought.

Rob M.

That would be a very poor decision on the part of any auction house. The resulting bad PR from having knowingly "sold" a bad item (even if it never actually changed hands) would be far worse than any blowback from pulling a bad item from the auction. They might conduct their investigation and then pull the item without giving a reason, but to knowingly sell a bad item to someone with the intention of clearing up the matter with them behind closed doors after the auction is over is a lose lose proposition. They would still wind up getting bad PR, would not get commission from the sale of the bad item, and would lose out on whatever other bids the "winning bidder" would have placed in the auction had they not thought their funds tied up with the bad item.

[shelly]

It does seem tha HA has done this before. Wait to the last minute to remove and item. I do not think that it takes a month to get a hold of a consigner of such high valued rings. Same with the watch. It does start to get old.
I also see that an item that is truely suspected to be a forgery is consigned by one of the big shots at HA. I really think that is convlict of interest. Keeping an item in because your own guy is selling it.
Last thing. When it came to the rings even a person who has never dealt with rings could see that they where altered. It really would have made them look good if they just taken them down when this all started.

[earlywynnfan]

I think this would have been a great time to let the rings sell, keeping the facts hidden. (Obviously, the winning bidder would be notified immediately!) $60K worth of fraud is noteworthy. After the sale, trace the rings back to the consignor with the threat of jail time, and have him give up where he got them. Trace them all the way back to the source. Somehow we need to find out where all this garbage is coming from, and try to put and end to it. It appears the Cooperstown Forger is off pursuing journalistic activities, but many have stepped up to take his place.

Ken

PS: I, for one, am glad this whole thing was brought out publicly.

PPS: Ken Goldin's name has been brought into this thread. It seems Goldin will pull an auction at first hint of trouble, even if it means he's pulling what turns out to be a real item. Based on his hammer totals, being proactive does not hamper the bottom line!

[shelly]

He already commited fraud when he placed them in auction as authentic.