OT: Bonds, Clemens, Sosa to be on HOF ballot

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Steve, are just trying to placate the pro-Barry guys? Have you seen pictures of what he looked like in his pre-steroid days?

Not at all. And I'm hardly a fan of Bonds.

But if you believe the 1999 start of steroids for him, he was a pretty consistent HR hitter, upper 30's lower 40's most years.

Then
2000 49
2001 73
2002 46
2003 45
2004 45
2005 5
2006 26
2007 28

That's 317 or almost exactly 40 a year

Figure the first three years he might have been close to that,
The next three maybe only mid-low 30's and the last two the same as he did.
The breakdown in 05 I'm almost positive was a "coming off steroids" injury.
That looks like
2000 41
2001 37
2002 39
2003 35
2004 32
2005 33
2006 26
2007 28
(The numbers aren't scientifically applied, just made up)
That's 271, only 46 short of where he actually got.

Although he was hitting pretty well for his age (And not bad for any age)at the end, he was dropped very quickly after he got the record. Mostly because of the juicing and his splendid personality. Think about it, a guy hitting .276 with 28 homers got precisely 0 interest as a free agent. Not even from an AL team that could hide him at DH

A nicer guy who was about 40 HR short of the all time record and hitting 26-28 a year would have had a bunch of interest even if it was only as a gate draw for a weak team. A couple years, a record, and a graceful retirement or final year back in Pittsburg and there it is.

Steve B

And - He maybe could have done it quicker, without the monster year with 73 he'd have seen a lot more good pitches.

[Peter_Spaeth]

i think he would have tailed off a lot more than that in his late 30s early 40s without the juice.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

i think he would have tailed off a lot more than that in his late 30s early 40s without the juice.

It's possible. And that's the great thing about baseball "what if " discussions.

I figured on a gradual dropoff to his final two years which I assumed were done clean.
A sharp dropoff would have maybe left him at the upper 600's ?

The big tripping point is his attitude. It cost him at least a year. clean with the same attitude and a quick dropoff? Maybe he doesn't stay around long enough for even 600.


Of course, while we're onto whatifs, If the Sox had ever signed Kingman we'd be wondering how none of these guys could hit 90 even with steroids.

And does anyone recall the Topps "cyber stats" cards from 94? They did projected stats based on some computer program and used them for an insert set. The computer had Barry at something like 73 HR.

Steve B

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by steve B

It's possible. And that's the great thing about baseball "what if " discussions.

I figured on a gradual dropoff to his final two years which I assumed were done clean.
A sharp dropoff would have maybe left him at the upper 600's ?

The big tripping point is his attitude. It cost him at least a year. clean with the same attitude and a quick dropoff? Maybe he doesn't stay around long enough for even 600.


Of course, while we're onto whatifs, If the Sox had ever signed Kingman we'd be wondering how none of these guys could hit 90 even with steroids.

And does anyone recall the Topps "cyber stats" cards from 94? They did projected stats based on some computer program and used them for an insert set. The computer had Barry at something like 73 HR.

Steve B

Longest home run I ever saw in person was Kingman at Fenway with the As. Canseco had just hit a rinky dink one to right and kingman steps up and hits it ten miles over the wall. In the paper the next day they said it paid its toll on the turnpike and was last seen heading west.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Longest home run I ever saw in person was Kingman at Fenway with the As. Canseco had just hit a rinky dink one to right and kingman steps up and hits it ten miles over the wall. In the paper the next day they said it paid its toll on the turnpike and was last seen heading west.

Love hearing about Mick's supposed 636 or so foot bomb. That's just unreal.

I heard of the Kingman shot, incredible

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Love hearing about Mick's supposed 636 or so foot bomb. That's just unreal.

I heard of the Kingman shot, incredible

kingman had huge holes in his swing and most often would strike out or hit a pathetic grounder, but when the pitchers left one out over the plate, amazing things could happen

earlier in his career i happened to catch a game at wrigley and saw him hit one clean out of the stadium, in person it was really quite amazing to see

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

kingman had huge holes in his swing and most often would strike out or hit a pathetic grounder, but when the pitchers left one out over the plate, amazing things could happen

earlier in his career i happened to catch a game at wrigley and saw him hit one clean out of the stadium, in person it was really quite amazing to see

That's amazing. He reminds me a little of Matt Stairs, all or nothing, but boy, when he got ahold of one...

[bosoxfan]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Love hearing about Mick's supposed 636 or so foot bomb. That's just unreal.

I heard of the Kingman shot, incredible

The longest home run hit to left field at Fenway was 501+ ft. by Manny Ramirez, a half foot shorter than Williams had hit to right many years earlier. (into the wind I might add)

Kingman's longest shot I believe was hit in 1976 at Wrigley during the 23-22 game with the Phils. It traveled over 570 feet! I'm sure the wind was blowing out that day
I don't believe Mantle ever hiy a ball 636 feet.

[christopher.herman]

Steriods. Give me a break. Bonds, Clemens and Sosa should have followed Babe Ruth's diet regimen of hot dogs, beer and underage girls. Controversy over.
C.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bosoxfan

The longest home run hit to left field at Fenway was 501+ ft. by Manny Ramirez, a half foot shorter than Williams had hit to right many years earlier. (into the wind I might add)

Kingman's longest shot I believe was hit in 1976 at Wrigley during the 23-22 game with the Phils. It traveled over 570 feet! I'm sure the wind was blowing out that day
I don't believe Mantle ever hiy a ball 636 feet.

That HR by Manny should have been called at way over 501. I'm convinced it was only called that short out of respect for Williams.

The longest I saw in person were some by Rice. Not as high, but they were out quicker than any I've seen.

The one I recall by Kingman was while he was with the Yankees at Fenway. Hit in the bank of lights on the second light tower in left Mannys was only in the lights of the first tower. The one by Kingman should be the longest at Fenway, although there are a few others that were impressive. Like the handful that have gone completely out to the right of the flagpole.

Steve B