T215 Red Cross actually a T206?

[Abravefan11]

Based on how the T206 was put together and printed it's an easy no for me.

[Runscott]

I agree with Tim, but as a collector, since the fronts look exactly alike for the T206, Red Cross Type 1's and Coupon Type 1's, I see no problem whatsoever with using these two issues to fill in spots in my T206 collection.

Of course, that would be very expensive, but if your focus is having more difficult cards in your 'T206' collection, why not supplement your set with a few of these - it certainly would make it more interesting.

[buymycards]

I would lean heavily on the side of the people who consider T215 an extension of the T206 set, mainly because of the factory designation.

The T213-1 is more questionable because of the Louisiana designation.

[tedzan]

1910 COUPON (T213-1)

Most of you guys know my opinion regarding the 1910 COUPON cards. In the past 6 years, I have posted several threads on this subject.

Check out these threads........
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ht=1910+coupon
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=Quintuplicate
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ht=1910+coupon

It is a NO-BRAINER, these cards are indeed the 16th T-brand of the T206 set; as, they were issued in the Spring/Summer of 1910 (concurrently with the AMERICAN BEAUTY,
BROAD LEAF, CYCLE, and DRUM cards).
With all due respect to Burdick....he mis-classified this sub-set of 68 cards. Burdick's records indicate that they were issued "circa 1913-15"......this timeline is absolutely incorrect !
So, we'll give Burdick a "mulligan" on this one


This group of five T-brands were printed & issued circa Spring/Summer of 1910



RED CROSS (T215-1)




This issue is somewhat more complicated, as it derives subjects from the 150 series, 350 series, and the 460 series. Although, some of the RED CROSS cards were issued
in 1910, others were issued in early 1912 (evident by team trades reflected in their captions). So, I'm not ready to venture out on a limb and say the T215-1 should be
classified as part of the T206 set. Check out this thread........
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ight=red+cross



The 1910 COUPON....absolutely YES


TED Z

[barrysloate]

Why are T215 Red Cross not considered part of the T206 set, but brown background Red Cross are considered part of the T207 set? Is there a difference?

Quick side bar: as I'm typing in the words "Red Cross" I'm listening to an ad on the radio asking for donations to the Red Cross for Hurricane Sandy. Isn't that a coincidence?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Why are T215 Red Cross not considered part of the T206 set, but brown background Red Cross are considered part of the T207 set? Is there a difference?

Quick side bar: as I'm typing in the words "Red Cross" I'm listening to an ad on the radio asking for donations to the Red Cross for Hurricane Sandy. Isn't that a coincidence?

I'm 75 - 25 % leaning toward the the T215-1 RED CROSS 96 cards as an extension to the T206 set. Although, some of the team changes reflect trades as late as 1912,
the BROWN captioned aspects of these cards are consistent with the T206 format.

Consider this, if this issue is indeed part of the "T206 family"....we can extend the T206 timeline to "1909 - 1912".


TED Z





This includes approx. 35 cards that were derived from the 350-Only series and the Matty (white cap) from the 150/350 series.

[barrysloate]

I'm not certain Red Cross should be included in T206 either, but I would like someone to explain why we include it in the T207 set without even questioning it.

[E93]

Originally Posted by tedzan

1910 COUPON (T213-1)

It is a NO-BRAINER, these cards are indeed the 16th T-brand of the T206 set; as, they were issued in the Spring/Summer of 1910 (concurrently with the AMERICAN BEAUTY,
BROAD LEAF, CYCLE, and DRUM cards).

TED Z

Ted,
With all due respect, don't you mean the 17th T206 brand. Aren't you forgetting the Ty Cobb brand, also produced in the Spring of 1910 concurrent with the brands you mentioned and also produced by the ATC. I don't want to open another can of worms here and we have hashed this out many times before on this forum. Just wanted to catch the oversight.

If anyone is interested in more details on the issues concerning the Cobb back, see my article on T206Resource.com
http://www.t206resource.com/Article-...ing-World.html

JimB

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by E93

Ted,
With all due respect, don't you mean the 17th T206 brand. Aren't you forgetting the Ty Cobb brand, also produced in the Spring of 1910 concurrent with the brands you mentioned and also produced by the ATC. I don't want to open another can of worms here and we have hashed this out many times before on this forum. Just wanted to catch the oversight.

If anyone is interested in more details on the issues concerning the Cobb back, see my article on T206Resource.com

JimB

Jim....Jim........you are asking for Net54 "chaos"

No "oversight".....I seriously considered mentioning the red Cobb/Ty Cobb card; but, as is evident here....it's a tough game just trying to get some guys on
this forum to have an open mind regarding the 1910 COUPON issue. Typically, these skeptics allude to...."don't confuse me with the facts".

You and I are on the same track regarding the red Cobb/Ty Cobb card as an integral component of the T206 set.

I was convinced of this when I researched Sen. Russell's collection in 1907. For anyone interested, see this thread on Senator Russell's card collection......
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ell+collection

The speculation in the hobby for many years about the Ty Cobb card was....that it was issued in the post T206 era. After reading Sen. Russell's biography,
it was obvious to me that he essentially collected his 497-card T206 set during 1910 as a teenager living near Atlanta (GA). Indeed this convinced me that
the red Cobb with the Ty Cobb back card was issued in 1910. Russell's T206 set includes the red Cobb/Ty Cobb card and the rare Joe Doyle N.Y. Nat'l card.


Incidently, Jim..I do not agree with your premise that the red Cobb image first appeared on the Ty Cobb back card. The the 6 super prints (which include
the T206 red Cobb) were printed on a sheet of certain 350-only series cards that can be dated to very early in 1910 (if not as early as late 1909).


TED Z

[barrysloate]

Thanks Tim. I agree some of the confusion occurs because there were multiple designs for both T213 and T215, and that's why they were not included with T206. With the T207 Red Cross, there is no confusion. But I was curious if other experts had any other thoughts or insights.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Jim....Jim........you are asking for Net54 "chaos"

No "oversight".....I seriously considered mentioning the red Cobb/Ty Cobb card; but, as is evident here....it's a tough game just trying to get some guys on
this forum to have an open mind regarding the 1910 COUPON issue. Typically, these skeptics allude to...."don't confuse me with the facts".

You and I are on the same track regarding the red Cobb/Ty Cobb card as an integral component of the T206 set.

I was convinced of this when I researched Sen. Russell's collection in 1907. For anyone interested, see this thread on Senator Russell's card collection......
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ell+collection

The speculation in the hobby for many years about the Ty Cobb card was....that it was issued in the post T206 era. After reading Sen. Russell's biography,
it was obvious to me that he essentially collected his 497-card T206 set during 1910 as a teenager living near Atlanta (GA). Indeed this convinced me that
the red Cobb with the Ty Cobb back card was issued in 1910. Russell's T206 set includes the red Cobb/Ty Cobb card and the rare Joe Doyle N.Y. Nat'l card.


Incidently, Jim..I do not agree with your premise that the red Cobb image first appeared on the Ty Cobb back card. The the 6 super prints (which include
the T206 red Cobb) were printed on a sheet of certain 350-only series cards that can be dated to very early in 1910 (if not as early as late 1909).


TED Z

Ted, great stuff as usual. The bottom line is that no one's around who was involved in these decisions, and the evidence left us is sparse. You and Tim both have great theories, and I'm sure there's a lot of truth in both of them. Perhaps some day we'll locate some scraps of lost documentation that clear this all up, but quite honestly....I hope we don't.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

1910 COUPON (T213-1)

Most of you guys know my opinion regarding the 1910 COUPON cards. In the past 6 years, I have posted several threads on this subject.

Check out these threads........
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ht=1910+coupon
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=Quintuplicate
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ht=1910+coupon

It is a NO-BRAINER, these cards are indeed the 16th T-brand of the T206 set; as, they were issued in the Spring/Summer of 1910 (concurrently with the AMERICAN BEAUTY,
BROAD LEAF, CYCLE, and DRUM cards).
With all due respect to Burdick....he mis-classified this sub-set of 68 cards. Burdick's records indicate that they were issued "circa 1913-15"......this timeline is absolutely incorrect !
So, we'll give Burdick a "mulligan" on this one


This group of five T-brands were printed & issued circa Spring/Summer of 1910



RED CROSS (T215-1)





This issue is somewhat more complicated, as it derives subjects from the 150 series, 350 series, and the 460 series. Although, some of the RED CROSS cards were issued
in 1910, others were issued in early 1912 (evident by team trades reflected in their captions). So, I'm not ready to venture out on a limb and say the T215-1 should be
classified as part of the T206 set. Check out this thread........
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ight=red+cross

The 1910 COUPON....absolutely YES


TED Z

Ed

You and I (and, if I recall correctly, Scott Brockelman) appear to be the only guys on this forum that think the 1910 COUPON cards are really T206's. Perhaps, there are others,
but they choose not to get into this fray ?




P.S.....Look guys, I view this simply as an academic exercise....as, nothing will ever come of it. I have no axe to grind. Currently, I have 12 cards from this 1910 Coupon issue.
Furthermore, I certainly don't ever expect to complete this set of 68 cards


TED Z

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tedzan

...

Currently, I have 12 cards from this 1910 Coupon issue.
Furthermore, I certainly don't ever expect to complete this set of 68 cards


TED Z

Quitter

[tedzan]

There's "bigger fish to fry" than these "COUPON" cards. Besides, it would probably take 20 years for me to acquire the remaining 56 cards.
At my age, I don't think it's do-able

Received your email....and, those are weird looking CJ's.

I'll send you my weird looking T206.....it will give you a chuckle


Take care ole buddy,

T-Rex TED

[Abravefan11]

It's my opinion that all of the T215-1's were issued in 1912. A year after the conclusion of the T206 set and after the breakup of the ATC trust.