T215 Red Cross actually a T206?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tedzan

"I hope we don't"

Sorry guy, but I don't agree. I usually, if not 99% of the time, agree with everything you say. However, my 30+ years of E-Engineering mentality cannot accept that.

My brain desires to have ryhme and reason behind these events. And, thanks to our empirical experience, the Internet, and brain-storming between veteran hobbyist
that are willing to share info, we have a fair amount of circumstantial evidence which we can form intelligent theory's of what transpired 100 years ago.
And for that matter, 125 years ago when Sportscard premiums were first introduced into Tobacco packs.

Take care ole buddy,

TED Z

I think where we get a bit sideways in the discussions is defining the issue itself. Is the thing we are discussing "what Burdick should have done" or is it "What Burdick did, and why?"

How many roads must a man walk down
Before you call him a man?
How many seas must a white dove sail
Before she sleeps in the sand?
Yes, how many times must the cannon balls fly
Before they're forever banned?
The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.



.

[barrysloate]

Nice poem Leon...did you write that?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Nice poem Leon...did you write that?

I wrote it last night on my date with uh....... Morgan Fairchild (who was born in Dallas, btw)

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by Leon

I wrote it last night on my date with uh....... Morgan Fairchild (who was born in Dallas, btw)

Ladies and Gentlemen....Leon Zimmerman!!!!!

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think where we get a bit sideways in the discussions is defining the issue itself. Is the thing we are discussing "what Burdick should have done" or is it "What Burdick did, and why?"

Good question Leon.

[Bocabirdman]

It is easy to forget that his world had no internet. All communication was done by US Mail or face-to face. The amount of man-hours involved in amassing such an extensive, near complete catalogue of the sets he put together must be staggering. For me to nit-pick as I did in my earlier post was not intended to belittle his efforts nor his results. They have served the hobby plenty good enough for all these years. Un-catalogued sets have emerged but, all in all, his percentage is pretty damn impressive. Whether or not The Red Cross cards should be an extension of the T206 set is moot. Burdick classifed it with its own identifier, ergo, it is its own "T"-set. I surely am not seeing anyone un-ringing that bell anytime soon. Now if we were sitting here in 2012 without Burdick's work laid out before us, I could see it being done differently. However it is and we aren't , so 'nuff said.

[sreader3]

I think you guys are overthinking it. Burdick probably decided to keep the three species of Coupons under the same genus. Hence the 1910 Coupons were grouped with the later Coupons as T213. Burdick likely appreciated that the T213-1s were brethren of T206s but prioritized keeping the Coupons together.

EDITED TO ADD: I don't have a dog in the T213s-are(not)-T206s or T215s-are(not)-T206s hunt, but do think that 100+ years of precedent in treating T213s and T215s as separate and distinct will trump any arguments about commonality.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sreader3

I think you guys are overthinking it. Burdick probably decided to keep the three species of Coupons under the same genus. Hence the 1910 Coupons were grouped with the later Coupons as T213. Burdick likely appreciated that the T213-1s were brethren of T206s but prioritized keeping the Coupons together.

From reading Burdick's writings/thoughts I think you are absolutely correct. He just wanted everything to be easy for collectors to understand. Keeping things together accomplished that. For OCD folks it's a difficult situation at best. Everything doesn't fit perfectly. He very frequently said he knew he made mistakes and his work was a work in progress. If we could ever get SCD, SGC, Beckett and PSA on the same page, we might be able to actually make changes that are needed. I am not optimistic though.

[Abravefan11]

Scot and Leon - I agree with you both and think most people are pretty agreeable concerning why Burdick classified the cards the way he did. It's when you get to the "should he have classified them the way he did?" question that things get a little more tense.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Scot and Leon - I agree with you both and think most people are pretty agreeable concerning why Burdick classified the cards the way he did. It's when you get to the "should he have classified them the way he did?" question that things get a little more tense.

From what we know today there would be some easy changes and then some that would cause WWIII for our board .

[edhans]

[QUOTE=Leon;1056120]Everything doesn't fit perfectly. He very frequently said he knew he made mistakes and his work was a work in progress. QUOTE]

Seems to me to be Burdick's own permission to amend his work as new discoveries were made and new research undertaken. I don't see why sequential numbers shouldn't be assigned to newly discovered "unc" issues and letter designations changed to reflect new information. I think that even the T213-1/T206 discussion should be on the table. For what it's worth, I'm inclined to think that the type 1 Coupons are just another T206 brand, but that T215-1s are properly classified as a separate issue.