Let's Talk E90-1

[tedzan]

Blair

The following compares these two sets with respect to these three teams......

Ramly (1909) ...... American Caramel (AC)....1910 tough series cards

BOSTON AL
-----------
..................................Karger(traded)
..................................Speaker
Stahl...........................Stahl

BOSTON NL
-----------
Graham........................Graham
Ritchey........................Richie
..................................Shean
Sweeney......................Sweeney

CINCI.
-------
Karger
Lobert..........................Lobert
McLean........................McLean
M. Mitchell....................M. Mitchell


Tris Speaker played his first full season in 1909. The Ramly set was issued early in 1909; therefore, Tris was not included
in the Ramly set. Tris appears in the 1910 series of the AC and T206 sets.

Dave Shean played with the Phillies 1908-09....and for unexplainable reasons the Ramly set portays only one Phillies player
(Bransfield).

B.Brown and Hall are Horizontal cards that were issued in the 1910 series of the AC set. All five of the Horizontal cards in
the AC set were issued in the tough 1910 series.

My theory is based on studying these two sets. And, I cannot accept what I have presented here is simply the result of
mere coincidences.

Look, it's just a theory....but, I respect your skepticism.


TED Z

[jujudrum]

Here are a few more

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Blair

The following compares these two sets with respect to these three teams......

Ramly (1909) ...... American Caramel (AC)....1910 tough series cards

BOSTON AL
-----------
..................................Karger(traded)
..................................Speaker
Stahl...........................Stahl

BOSTON NL
-----------
Graham........................Graham
Ritchey........................Richie
..................................Shean
Sweeney......................Sweeney

CINCI.
-------
Karger
Lobert..........................Lobert
McLean........................McLean
M. Mitchell....................M. Mitchell


Tris Speaker played his first full season in 1909. The Ramly set was issued early in 1909; therefore, Tris was not included
in the Ramly set. Tris appears in the 1910 series of the AC and T206 sets.

Dave Shean played with the Phillies 1908-09....and for unexplainable reasons the Ramly set portays only one Phillies player
(Bransfield).

B.Brown and Hall are Horizontal cards that were issued in the 1910 series of the AC set. All five of the Horizontal cards in
the AC set were issued in the tough 1910 series.

My theory is based on studying these two sets. And, I cannot accept what I have presented here is simply the result of
mere coincidences.

Look, it's just a theory....but, I respect your skepticism.


TED Z

Hi Ted,

I also respect your efforts to find a theory to try to make sense of the E90 issue.

What about this theory? Both Boston teams were terrible in 1907 and 1908 - well below .500 records. Boston was not a great market for American Caramel products. So, when the E90 cards were first issued, they only included Cy Young...the only Boston player with any proven national fan base.

Then in 1909, the Boston AL team turned it around, playing very good ball. At the same time, the sales guys at American Caramel decided to try to expand sales in Boston and New England. So the time was right to add a bunch of Boston players to the set.

Just as likely, I'd say.

Cheers,
Blair

[peterose4hof]

I'm glad you mentioned the McLean as being a toughie. I saw a low-grade McLean at the National that the dealer had listed at $1200 and I thought, wow is that overpriced, McLean's just a common. Now I know better. Thanks!

[tedzan]

Blair

1st.....Circa 1901-1904 in Oxford (PA), the Breisch-Williams Caramel Co. (of E107 fame) marketed their candy products in the Northeast (including New England).
Daniel Lafean [American Caramel (AC) Co. founder] acquired BWC (circa 1905) and incorporated it into his AC Co. So, this supposition of yours does not apply....

"At the same time, the sales guys at American Caramel decided to try to expand sales in Boston and New England."


2nd....AC's E91-C (1910) set depicts Boston AL players, including Karger, Speaker, and Stahl. Therefore, this is consistent with the E90-1 set including these 3
players in their 1910 series.


With the exception of Cy Young (Boston AL), it is very mystifying to me that AC did not portray Boston players in their early series.


TED Z

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Blair

1st.....Circa 1901-1904 in Oxford (PA), the Breisch-Williams Caramel Co. (of E107 fame) marketed their candy products in the Northeast (including New England).
Daniel Lafean [American Caramel (AC) Co. founder] acquired BWC (circa 1905) and incorporated it into his AC Co. So, this supposition of yours does not apply....

"At the same time, the sales guys at American Caramel decided to try to expand sales in Boston and New England."


2nd....AC's E91-C (1910) set depicts Boston AL players, including Karger, Speaker, and Stahl. Therefore, this is consistent with the E90-1 set including these 3
players in their 1910 series.


With the exception of Cy Young (Boston AL), it is very mystifying to me that AC did not portray Boston players in their early series.


TED Z

Hi Ted,

To be clear, I never said AC had no presence in New England. I said they wanted to expand sales there. We all know that baseball cards were promotional items used with the end goal of increasing sales and brand loyalty.

I am not a candy company researcher by any stretch, but I have read in multiple places that New England was a very competitive market for candy makers. Especially so because there was a lot of local competition from MA and the area.

This from the most recent Goodwin catalog regarding E94: "The George Close Candy Company operated in one of America’s candy making hotbeds, Cambridge, Massachusetts. Prior to WWII, no fewer than 66 candy companies operated full time in Cambridge."

From where I'm sitting, I can't disprove your Ramly contract theory and you can't disprove my sales theory.

Interesting stuff.

Cheers,
Blair

[Bosox Blair]

Ted,

What do you make of the fact that E92 Dockman features Shean as a Boston NL player (if anything)? I have seen Dockman dated as a 1909 set...so if Ramly had Boston (including Shean) locked up with contracts, Dockman didn't care? Or maybe Dockman is a 1910 set too?

Interesting since the E92 poses overlap with E90-1 as well...

Cheers,
Blair

[Bosox Blair]

I'll stop writing and show a few cards:

[Bosox Blair]

Couple more here: