This is the problem with grading...

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Accusations were made by david james without any proof. If david james is certain that this has been going, where is the proof??

Kevin, do you want proof? Okay, give me just a few minutes and I'll have your proof. In the meantime, go take your meds so you can fully comprehend what I'm about to lay out before you.

[nolemmings]

But from what I hear about Rick and his reputation, I'm sure he will tell him to not shill on his consignments. Not sure what good that will do it he has other accounts.

What he should do is refuse to take any more consignments from the shiller--why agree to profit from a known cheater?

[brob28]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

What he should do is refuse to take any more consignments from the shiller--why agree to profit from a known cheater?

Yes Sir! If I was in Rick's shoes I would do exactly that (assuming I (Rick) agreed shilling took place). I think he has a lot to gain & maintain by refusing more consignments from the shiller. He has potentially more to lose by continuing with him. With the amount of business he does I can't believe one consignor would put a dent in his business. However, keep in mind he can't start banning every consignor that is accused of shilling - he has to be sure.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by brob28

Yes Sir! If I was in Rick's shoes I would do exactly that (assuming I (Rick) agreed shilling took place). I think he has a lot to gain & maintain by refusing more consignments from the shiller. He has potentially more to lose by continuing with him. With the amount of business he does I can't believe one consignor would put a dent in his business. However, keep in mind he can't start banning every consignor that is accused of shilling - he has to be sure.

All he has to do is check the bid history. Bidder IDs are not hidden from the seller. I'd be surprised if he hasn't checked yet.

[CMIZ5290]

David- you are the one that just said you had no proof! Besides, like the last post said, how in the world can this guy possibly monitor the amount of auctions he has to deal with?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

David- you are the one that just said you had no proof! Besides, like the last post said, how in the world can this guy possibly monitor the amount of auctions he has to deal with?

Agreed. But it's just as clear that fraud occurred in his auctions. Is it asking so much for Rick to address such an issue that he clearly has knowledge of at this point?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Agreed. But it's just as clear that fraud occurred in his auctions. Is it asking so much for Rick to address such an issue that he clearly has knowledge of at this point?

Would you advise a client to come on this Board and address issues?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Would you advise a client to come on this Board and address issues?

If he had done nothing wrong and had nothing to hide? Of course.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

If he had done nothing wrong and had nothing to hide? Of course.

So if I accuse a client of yours of wrongdoing, and he doesn't respond, I will know he has done something wrong and has something to hide?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So if I accuse a client of yours of wrongdoing, and he doesn't respond, I will know he has done something wrong and has something to hide?

Peter, I'm guessing you're having a boring Sunday. There's an issue that arose here based on someone's auctions which were clearly shilled. It's a discreet, simple issue to address which does not really require much research or investigation. There's no grand jury sitting and no federal agents doing the questioning. It would seem bizarre to ignore it especially when the auctioneer apparently addressed half of the claim. And the auctioneer is not someone who has a history of being lambasted on this board and would have a reason to shy away from making a statement.

I honestly think this is pretty easily handled by Rick.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

David- you are the one that just said you had no proof! Besides, like the last post said, how in the world can this guy possibly monitor the amount of auctions he has to deal with?

And here comes the spin. Kevin, if I said I had no proof that he knew about it, then why are you asking me for proof? I thought you were asking me for proof whether or not the auction was shilled. Clearly it was. Probstein has now been made aware of the fact. So, what's he going to do about it? As someone that has bid on his items and purchased from him, I think I have the right to know. After all, who's to say I wasn't shilled in one of his auctions?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Peter,

If you read that thread on CU (which has since been deleted), he did respond to the questions about the bumps. However, when he was asked about the shilling, he dummied up real quick and didn't say another word. Why would he choose to address some issues and not others?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Peter,

If you read that thread on CU (which has since been deleted), he did respond to the questions about the bumps. However, when he was asked about the shilling, he dummied up real quick and didn't say another word. Why would he choose to address some issues and not others?

What did he say about the bumps, I didn't see it pre-poofery.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What did he say about the bumps, I didn't see it pre-poofery.

He basically said that all auction houses offer a pre-viewing of all consignments and he was no different, and that pank21 had viewed these items in person and thought they were bump worthy.

He was then asked about the shilling and he didn't respond...and he had a couple of days to do it before that thread went poof. He did post in other threads in the meantime, so he had to have seen the questions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

He basically said that all auction houses offer a pre-viewing of all consignments and he was no different, and that pank21 had viewed these items in person and thought they were bump worthy.

He was then asked about the shilling and he didn't respond...and he had a couple of days to do it before that thread went poof. He did post in other threads in the meantime, so he had to have seen the questions.

Well, that's not encouraging, is it?

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Peter,

If you read that thread on CU (which has since been deleted), he did respond to the questions about the bumps. However, when he was asked about the shilling, he dummied up real quick and didn't say another word. Why would he choose to address some issues and not others?

It appears that the seller's response was copied on Post #10 of this thread.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

It appears that the seller's response was copied on Post #10 of this thread.

Thanks, Dan!



hi guys,
every major auction house , including memory lane, heritage , mile high , huggins and scott , etc.... opens their items for auction up for VIEWING....
during this VIEWING period both dealers and collectors review the inventory for sale and decide which items they wanna bid on...
( sometimes they bring this inventory to shows for people to review as well )
yes, these dealers and collectors look for cards/items that may bump or sets or lots that may have great break value for resale or items that may be undervalued or just items they wanna buy for their collections...

probstein123 functions like a major auction in this fashion and we have a large pool of dealers who look at items to bid upon....
probstein123 is not aware of which items they like, nor which items they bid upon....we are busy posting , shipping , and handling close to 10,000 auctions monthly.....
none of these dealers are probstein staff and they all conduct their bids apart from probstein123 knowledge....we don't micro-manage the process - just like the major auction houses....
people bid on items they like...probstein123 is managed by the guidelines set forth by ebay trust and safety and we don't bid on our own items....

if you are interested in setting up viewing of auctions with probstein123 like other dealers and collectors, please feel free to call me at 973 747 6304....

thanks
rick

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Thanks, Dan!



hi guys,
every major auction house , including memory lane, heritage , mile high , huggins and scott , etc.... opens their items for auction up for VIEWING....
during this VIEWING period both dealers and collectors review the inventory for sale and decide which items they wanna bid on...
( sometimes they bring this inventory to shows for people to review as well )
yes, these dealers and collectors look for cards/items that may bump or sets or lots that may have great break value for resale or items that may be undervalued or just items they wanna buy for their collections...

probstein123 functions like a major auction in this fashion and we have a large pool of dealers who look at items to bid upon....
probstein123 is not aware of which items they like, nor which items they bid upon....we are busy posting , shipping , and handling close to 10,000 auctions monthly.....
none of these dealers are probstein staff and they all conduct their bids apart from probstein123 knowledge....we don't micro-manage the process - just like the major auction houses....
people bid on items they like...probstein123 is managed by the guidelines set forth by ebay trust and safety and we don't bid on our own items....

if you are interested in setting up viewing of auctions with probstein123 like other dealers and collectors, please feel free to call me at 973 747 6304....

thanks
rick

I think this is a pretty fair response on the issue he addressed. Not sure why he wouldn't also say that he won't do business anymore with a consignor who shilled his own item(s) in a Probstein auction.