This is the problem with grading...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

If he had done nothing wrong and had nothing to hide? Of course.

So if I accuse a client of yours of wrongdoing, and he doesn't respond, I will know he has done something wrong and has something to hide?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So if I accuse a client of yours of wrongdoing, and he doesn't respond, I will know he has done something wrong and has something to hide?

Peter, I'm guessing you're having a boring Sunday. There's an issue that arose here based on someone's auctions which were clearly shilled. It's a discreet, simple issue to address which does not really require much research or investigation. There's no grand jury sitting and no federal agents doing the questioning. It would seem bizarre to ignore it especially when the auctioneer apparently addressed half of the claim. And the auctioneer is not someone who has a history of being lambasted on this board and would have a reason to shy away from making a statement.

I honestly think this is pretty easily handled by Rick.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Peter, I'm guessing you're having a boring Sunday. There's an issue that arose here based on someone's auctions which were clearly shilled. It's a discreet, simple issue to address which does not really require much research or investigation. There's no grand jury sitting and no federal agents doing the questioning. It would seem bizarre to ignore it especially when the auctioneer apparently addressed half of the claim. And the auctioneer is not someone who has a history of being lambasted on this board and would have a reason to shy away from making a statement.

I honestly think this is pretty easily handled by Rick

Yeah, a tad slow I would say. My point though is that with this crowd, I'm not sure I would advise anyone to come on here, even if they were completely innocent. There's always going to be someone who isn't satisfied with the explanation, or demand more proof, or whatever, and someone who is going to infer guilt from the failure to answer the last question quickly enough. I have no idea if Rick is guilty of anything, that isn't my point, my point rather is that I don't think it's fair to infer guilt from his unwillingness to engage with us.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah, a tad slow I would say. My point though is that with this crowd, I'm not sure I would advise anyone to come on here, even if they were completely innocent. There's always going to be someone who isn't satisfied with the explanation, or demand more proof, or whatever, and someone who is going to infer guilt from the failure to answer the last question quickly enough. I have no idea if Rick is guilty of anything, that isn't my point, my point rather is that I don't think it's fair to infer guilt from his unwillingness to engage with us.

I agree -- but don't you also agree that this is pretty straightforward? "We'll investigate the pertinent auctions and if shilling occurred we won't do business with that consignor anymore." I don't think anyone's enjoyment of the hobby would even be affected by such a response.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I agree -- but don't you also agree that this is pretty straightforward? "We'll investigate the pertinent auctions and if shilling occurred we won't do business with that consignor anymore." I don't think anyone's enjoyment of the hobby would even be affected by such a response.

All that does is kick the issue down the road for a later round of questions with the same problem.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

All that does is kick the issue down the road for a later round of questions with the same problem.

No, there is a singular situation here with one consignor/shill bidder. The same problem only comes up if Rick continues to let the same consignor bid on his own auctions -- especially after having knowledge of it now.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Honestly, this is not a big issue for me. If pank21 doesn't want to let a card go under a certain amount, Rick can accomplish the same result with a minimum bid or an undisclosed reserve, or letting pank21 put in a bid at that amount, and it makes no difference to me what route he takes to get there. Where shill bidding bothers me is where the auction house knows a max bid (not possible for an ebay seller) and tells the consignor so they can run up the max bidder.

Is everyone on here really so pure that they have NEVER bid on a card they consigned, or asked a friend to bid on a card they were auctioning, or put in a bid on a friend's auction when asked to? Somehow, I doubt it.

Yeah, feel free to ridicule me for condoning FRAUD!!