Now that all the lying is done...do you think clemens makes the hall?

[vintagetoppsguy]

I have seen/met Roger Clemens many times around town. I have actually spent time in the home of Andy Pettitte and had a nice conversation with him. Met his wife and kids as well. I don't care if he lied or not. Makes no difference to me. Lying doesn't mean that he's not a stand up guy. Who here has never told a lie? Come on, speak up (or shut up!!!)!

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Lying doesn't mean that he's not a stand up guy.

That's exactly what it means.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Mikehealer

That's exactly what it means.

Mike, have you ever told a lie? Are you a stand up guy?

[Mikehealer]

I have. I am not.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by Mikehealer

I have. I am not.

To the second part of this reply, I disagree. IMO you are a stand up guy.

It's interesting that a jury acquited him but many people still think he's a liar. I know the jury doesn't always get it right (OJ) but I don't see the compeling evidence-maybe I'm missing something.

Look at early cards of Bonds- skinny as a beanpole. Years later, looks like a tank. I didn't see Clemens looking like that, maybe that's why I'm not convinced. And, this Mac guy holding on to a syringe for all of these years? Sounds strange to me.

Sincerely, Clayton

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Look at early cards of Bonds- skinny as a beanpole. Years later, looks like a tank. I didn't see Clemens looking like that, maybe that's why I'm not convinced. And, this Mac guy holding on to a syringe for all of these years? Sounds strange to me.

Very good points. No, Clemens never grew in size like Bonds (and others) did. Also, look at Clemens' career stats. Each year was pretty consistent and never showed an improvement in his numbers. Last, why would Mac hold on to a syringe and cotton balls all those years? Makes no sense. And where was the syringe and cotton balls kept all those years? In a freaking beer can!

[drc]

I don't think either Mussina or Pettitte were good enough to get into the Hall. Of the two, Mussina was superior. Pettitte has a lifetime 3.86 ERA, regularly had ERAs over 4, and had the W-L success only because he played for the Yankees.

Ozzie Smith deserves to be in the Hall because he was the best defensive player at the most important defensive position-- and possibly the best defensive player in history. The Hall takes way too little notice to defense, but not in this case. If you're focusing on Ozzie's home run total, you're missing the point.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Mike, have you ever told a lie? Are you a stand up guy?

Did Mike ever commit perjury.

[packs]

I think Andy is a stand up guy for taking responsibility for his own actions.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

Did Mike ever commit perjury.

I guessing the answer is no. Then again, according to the jury, Roger Clemens didn't either.

[HRBAKER]

Then I will respectfully disagree as well.
I do not believe most people would lie under oath.
And of course I am not sure that Bill Clinton is the standard to judge what most people would do either. Case not closed.