Now that all the lying is done...do you think clemens makes the hall?

[oldjudge]

I think Clemens and Bonds (and we might as well lump Arod with these guys) were so far superior to the players of their era and, whether they did steroids or not, that they deserve to get in. I agree that either will be hard pressed to make it on the first ballot, but I think they will get in. Palmeiro was not a dominant player of his era, just an accumulator of stats IMO. I would not have been a fan of his getting in with or without steroids. McGwire was a one dimensional player and I am not that upset that he is not in. Clemens and Bonds are different.
BTW, Griffey is a first ballot HOFer and IMO Biggio is not a HOFer, regardless of his hit total, but he will probably get in. Ozzie Smith was no HOFer either (just thrown in since I think that his getting in was the biggest joke since Tommy McCarthy getting in).

[zljones]

I sincerly hope not. No juiceheads she be in. No Bonds, Giambi, Canseco, or any juice heads. Let in Pete Rose or Joe Jackson instead!

[packs]

I don't think numbers or talent has anything to do with the steroids guys not getting in. I think it all boils down to admitting what you did. Even A-rod sort of admitted using. Bonds and Clemens will never admit what they did, so they should never get into the HOF.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Ozzie Smith was no HOFer either (just thrown in since I think that his getting in was the biggest joke since Tommy McCarthy getting in).

Not to fully defend Ozzie Smith's induction, rather defend it being the biggest joke since Tommy McCarthy, Luis Aparicio was very similar to Ozzie and he is in.

So there were other players between McCarthy and O.Smith to make the statement "...since Tommy McCarthy" false.

[packs]

I think Mussina and Pettitte are both HOFers. I think Mussina's career numbers are better but I think Pettitte is the superior pitcher. Andy is the guy you want on the mound with the game on the line. I don't think the same can be said for Mussina.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

I don't see Clemens getting in the Hall for quite a while. If McGwire and Palmiero can only get 20% of the votes, I don't see the writers making an exception for Clemens (or Bonds), both who probably would have made the Hall prior to the scandal.

[7nohitter]

I don't see Mussina getting in....good pitcher for a short amount of time...

[packs]

Really? Mussina has almost 120 more wins than losses over an 18 year career played at the height of the steroid era in the toughest division in baseball. That sounds good enough to me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

I don't see Mussina getting in....good pitcher for a short amount of time...

yeah, only 17 years

[Ladder7]

My vote is for Glenn Burke. He had guts.


Certainly not this selfish doosh

[3-2-count]

If your against worthy roid users entering the hall and state one player should get in over the next because they were far superior than the other guy when they all did em', that's just wrong. You either keep them all out because of that or put them all in if warranted. Picking and choosing from this group is a slippery slope imo which many seem to do.