Now that all the lying is done...do you think clemens makes the hall?

[7nohitter]

I don't see Mussina getting in....good pitcher for a short amount of time...

[packs]

Really? Mussina has almost 120 more wins than losses over an 18 year career played at the height of the steroid era in the toughest division in baseball. That sounds good enough to me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

I don't see Mussina getting in....good pitcher for a short amount of time...

yeah, only 17 years

[Ladder7]

My vote is for Glenn Burke. He had guts.


Certainly not this selfish doosh

[Peter_Spaeth]

Boston fans twice counted out Clemens prematurely. First, after the 1996 season, when the team failed to sign him and Dan Duquette famously said that he was in the "twighlight of his career." Second, after the 1999 Fenway playoff game with the Yankees, when Clemens got shelled early and lost to Pedro. The press was giddy after that one, and with a 36 year old Clemens coming off a mediocre season, who could blame them? Of course he went on to win two more Cy Young awards.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Boston fans twice counted out Clemens prematurely. First, after the 1996 season, when the team failed to sign him and Dan Duquette famously said that he was in the "twighlight of his career." Second, after the 1999 Fenway playoff game with the Yankees, when Clemens got shelled early and lost to Pedro. The press was giddy after that one, and with a 36 year old Clemens coming off a mediocre season, who could blame them? Of course he went on to win two more Cy Young awards.

Duquette may have been right - had Clemens not turned to steroids (which many believe started right around the time of leaving the Red Sox), it could have been the end of his career.

He had been right around .500 in the previous 3-4 years with Boston (something like 40-39 rings a bell), so to go from that to back-to-back Cy Youngs in your late 30s, sounds like there could have been some strong motivation. Or medical help.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Scott, recall that in the second half of 1996 he was pretty damn good, including a 20 strikeout game. I think it was more motivation than help.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Some of Nolan Ryan's best years were late in his career (in his fourties). Was he on steroids too?

[3-2-count]

If your against worthy roid users entering the hall and state one player should get in over the next because they were far superior than the other guy when they all did em', that's just wrong. You either keep them all out because of that or put them all in if warranted. Picking and choosing from this group is a slippery slope imo which many seem to do.