Heritage Auction problem

[Leon]

Heritage is an advertiser but I will give an opinion anyway. Even though Chris (Ivy) and I don't always agree on everything I don't know anyone in the hobby more honest than he is. I would be absolutely shocked if his division of the company is doing anything wrong (on purpose). Do they make mistakes, no doubt. But as far as doing anything that is illegal, or even close to illegal, I think there is no way in hell that is happening. Heritage wouldn't have been in business so long and be so successful if they did things that weren't on the up and up. Sure, anyone can say anything they want to....and completely disagree with me, no issue there, but those are my thoughts. I do politely disagree with some of their rules on bidding but it's their business and they are doing nothing against the law by the way they run their auctions.

[sports-rings]

the fact they wouldnt pressure the "winning" bidder to pay or to release their name only makes me wonder more.

Again, I am not sure how much of an effort they applied in pressuring the wining bidder to complete the transaction on my canceled sale. It may have been a monumental effort or it could have been very little.

I tried to get as much information as I could but Heritage did not reveal too much. I did ask and was told that the winning bidder had purchased items in the past and also consigned with them, but will no longer be allowed to bid in any future heritage auctions.

Sadly, I feel when I put this unique item up for bid next time, people will wonder if something was wrong with the item since it had been in the heritage auction in May. I wonder if it will do worse since it will be auctioned off a 2nd time.

[travrosty]

I needed the money bad and after three months, left holding the bag, and they got the stones to ask me to consign it with them again? yeah, i want to dink around another 3 months with them.

they listed their autographs as jsa auction LOA when they weren't. thats lying. When you say something that isn't so it's a lie.

when i told chris ivy that is not cool, he told me to mind my own business. then 6 months later when it got some traction and he couldnt contain it any further, he acts like this is the first time he heard of such claims, and then says he is happy to help out the customer by fixing the problem. unbelievable. And the people who bring these items to light get their accounts banned. yeah, they are a super auction house.


He also said the only times they put up the premature auction loa by jsa was on preview items where no live bidding was taking place. This was also a lie. myself and others showed instances of weekly internet auctions that had the premature jsa auction loa tag on them and the items were up for live internet bidding. When he says something like that - that isn't true, it's called a lie. That's not being honest, it's the definition of dishonesty.


Only when they got caught on a high-visibility scale, did they do anything about it and the people who pressured them to change got the brunt of their wrath by getting their bidding accounts cancelled, at least 5 people. They helped the customer and we helped them help the customer and if it wasn't for us they would still be doing it but we are the bad guys who deserve our accounts cancelled? Jeez!

So when you say you know Ivy to be honest as the day is long, that's fine for you, I am here to say I know a different Chris Ivy.

That's them in a nutshell and I don't care if they are a platinum sponsor or a plutonium sponsor. I am glad everyone can voice their opinion.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by Leon

Even though Chris (Ivy) and I don't always agree on everything I don't know anyone in the hobby more honest than he is.

I'll disagree and take Jim Stinson, David Hunt, Henry Yee, and Richard Simon for $500 Alex...

[thekingofclout]

I'm confused. Didn't Travis get barred by Heritage several months ago? And if so, I've never heard of an auction house accepting consignments from someone that they had barred?

And even a bit stranger in my opinion. A few months ago, Travis continued to bash Heritage here on net 54. He bashed them pretty darn good too. My question is:

Travis. Why would you consign an autograph with Heritage when you were convinced that, as a Company and Chris Ivy himself, were liars. And not just regular liars but really big, BIG liars. Just what made you choose Heritage? Especially during the Spring Auction Season when there were SEVERAL Major Auction Houses that all had auctions withing weeks, some before, and some after, the date that Heritage chose for their auction. How do you explain that choice Travis? What compelled you to get on board with Heritage? It makes me wonder...

I personally don't know a single person (and I know a lot of people) that would trust an expensive item with someone whom they DO NOT TRUST and were convinced was a LIAR! It's just unheard of.

[thxforthebp]

After a phone call today with Heritage I am even more frustrated than I was to begin with. I was originally told the item would ship, it didn't. After calling again today I was told that the auction was voided because the item I won was misrepresented in the description. That is true but I wanted it regardless I knew exactly what I was purchasing after stating that and asking more questions was told it was lost. Now I was given two stories have no item, and was left extremely frustrated. The called ended with them saying if the item was located by them after they misplaced it I would be offered it at the sale price, all I can say is when stories contradict each other I should probably walk the other way.

Josh Drasher
jbd99@verizon.net

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by thxforthebp

After a phone call today with Heritage I am even more frustrated than I was to begin with. I was originally told the item would ship, it didn't. After calling again today I was told that the auction was voided because the item I won was misrepresented in the description. That is true but I wanted it regardless I knew exactly what I was purchasing after stating that and asking more questions was told it was lost. Now I was given two stories have no item, and was left extremely frustrated. The called ended with them saying if the item was located by them after they misplaced it I would be offered it at the sale price, all I can say is when stories contradict each other I should probably walk the other way.

Hmmm. I think I can begin to see a little fire through all of this thick smoke.

The item was lost? This is a bad comedy routine. At best.

[Hankphenom]

Just my .2 worth: In a handful of recent experiences with Heritage, buying and selling, too many ****ups to go into here. I like Chris Ivy, very pleasant and personable. The company--I'll never use them again.

[travrosty]

[QUOTE=thxforthebp;1002666]After a phone call today with Heritage I am even more frustrated than I was to begin with. I was originally told the item would ship, it didn't. After calling again today I was told that the auction was voided because the item I won was misrepresented in the description. That is true but I wanted it regardless I knew exactly what I was purchasing after stating that and asking more questions was told it was lost. Now I was given two stories have no item, and was left extremely frustrated. The called ended with them saying if the item was located by them after they misplaced it I would be offered it at the sale price, all I can say is when stories contradict each other I should probably walk the other way.


sorry to hear that. did the customer service person have a name? was it n.p. gresham?

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by travrosty

I needed the money bad and after three months, left holding the bag, and they got the stones to ask me to consign it with them again? yeah, i want to dink around another 3 months with them.

they listed their autographs as jsa auction LOA when they weren't. thats lying. When you say something that isn't so it's a lie.

when i told chris ivy that is not cool, he told me to mind my own business. then 6 months later when it got some traction and he couldnt contain it any further, he acts like this is the first time he heard of such claims, and then says he is happy to help out the customer by fixing the problem. unbelievable. And the people who bring these items to light get their accounts banned. yeah, they are a super auction house.


He also said the only times they put up the premature auction loa by jsa was on preview items where no live bidding was taking place. This was also a lie. myself and others showed instances of weekly internet auctions that had the premature jsa auction loa tag on them and the items were up for live internet bidding. When he says something like that - that isn't true, it's called a lie. That's not being honest, it's the definition of dishonesty.


Only when they got caught on a high-visibility scale, did they do anything about it and the people who pressured them to change got the brunt of their wrath by getting their bidding accounts cancelled, at least 5 people. They helped the customer and we helped them help the customer and if it wasn't for us they would still be doing it but we are the bad guys who deserve our accounts cancelled? Jeez!

So when you say you know Ivy to be honest as the day is long, that's fine for you, I am here to say I know a different Chris Ivy.

That's them in a nutshell and I don't care if they are a platinum sponsor or a plutonium sponsor. I am glad everyone can voice their opinion.

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

I'm confused. Didn't Travis get barred by Heritage several months ago? And if so, I've never heard of an auction house accepting consignments from someone that they had barred?

And even a bit stranger in my opinion. A few months ago, Travis continued to bash Heritage here on net 54. He bashed them pretty darn good too. My question is:

Travis. Why would you consign an autograph with Heritage when you were convinced that, as a Company and Chris Ivy himself, were liars. And not just regular liars but really big, BIG liars. Just what made you choose Heritage? Especially during the Spring Auction Season when there were SEVERAL Major Auction Houses that all had auctions withing weeks, some before, and some after, the date that Heritage chose for their auction. How do you explain that choice Travis? What compelled you to get on board with Heritage? It makes me wonder...

I personally don't know a single person (and I know a lot of people) that would trust an expensive item with someone whom they DO NOT TRUST and were convinced was a LIAR! It's just unheard of.

Sorry. I forgot to add my name. Jimmy Catanzaro

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

Sorry. I forgot to add my name. Jimmy Catanzaro

The reason is that it is the first and only time i had ever consigned anything with them, and i didnt know heritage that well, I had emailed ivy and heritage before and they were cordial enough, they were just a big auction house and I thought i could get some exposure for my item.

All of the lying and the premature auction loa stuff came after this. I was shocked to see them do it this way. Blame the messenger for a mess they created themselves.


And I got banned for telling the truth to the hobby because of it, but the cancellation of my account was after I had consigned and had the auction listing cancelled after the fact due to a non paying bidder.

I actually found out the transaction on this listing was cancelled by checking the listing after the auction ended and seeing a auction listing cancellation on the listing first before i even got an email or a call from them that something had happened. I had to contact them to ask why the auction was reversed. Now that's nice. Did they plan on telling me at all? Why the internet listing on this auction item was updated before they called or emailed me telling me of the outcome I will never know.

Of course i wouldn't ever consign with them again. I am not allowed to, but as they say, you can't fire me, I quit. There is more than one auction house out there.

Now you know.

[RichardSimon]

Travis and I have both been banned by Heritage.
My ban took place after I posted something about them on a prior thread.
All you guys going negative here (though most of you seem to not want to deal with them anyway) run the banning risk now.
They are VERY THIN SKINNED.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Travis and I have both been banned by Heritage.
My ban took place after I posted something about them on a prior thread.
All you guys going negative here (though most of you seem to not want to deal with them anyway) run the banning risk now.
They are VERY THIN SKINNED.

That is exactly right, i have nothing to lose, but i think other people might have less than stellar stories to tell to forewarn people but they fear for their account and run the risk of getting banned too, so that fear is enough to make sure people keep quiet, and heritage wanted to fire a shot over the bow to make examples of people to give others a message that you criticize or critique them at your own peril.

They are very thin skinned indeed. They didn't seem to want to work with the hobby. They wanted to give off a air of superiority, like the collector with a concern is nothing, they are a big auction house, now go away.

I had the exact opposite experience with Lelands, Josh Evans returned my emails and listened to my concerns, checked into it, and pulled an autographed item from the auction even though it was slabbed in a PSA holder, because he was responsive to concerns and did something I think Ivy has a hard time doing. He listened. He did not tell me to go play in traffic.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

I'll disagree and take Jim Stinson, David Hunt, Henry Yee, and Richard Simon for $500 Alex...

Your list above names one of the most dishonest people I've ever dealt with in the hobby. I guess it's all just a matter of personal experiences - also, my experiences with Chris Ivy have been fantastic.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Your list above names one of the most dishonest people I've ever dealt with in the hobby. I guess it's all just a matter of personal experiences - also, my experiences with Chris Ivy have been fantastic.

Would you care to share your experience with the person in question?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

Would you care to share your experience with the person in question?

Jake, I probably should not have responded to your post, but it offended me as you contrasted an honest person (Chris) with someone who at least at one point in time was blatantly dishonest. I'm told by a board member who I have the greatest respect for that this person has turned over a new leaf. That's great, but he used up all three strikes with me.

Again, if Chris' name had not been mentioned disparagingly, I would not have responded. Rest easy realizing that my opinion isn't worth a hill of beans to any of the new guys here, and the old ones know exactly who and what I'm talking about.

Richard - I have no reason to doubt your honesty. And given how much animosity you still feel for Heritage, I'm sure you can understand that I also still haven't forgotten some of my bad experiences with sellers.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Jake, I probably should not have responded to your post, but it offended me as you contrasted an honest person (Chris) with someone who at least at one point in time was blatantly dishonest. I'm told by a board member who I have the greatest respect for that this person has turned over a new leaf. That's great, but he used up all three strikes with me.

Again, if Chris' name had not been mentioned disparagingly, I would not have responded. Rest easy realizing that my opinion isn't worth a hill of beans to any of the new guys here, and the old ones know exactly who and what I'm talking about.

Richard - I have no reason to doubt your honesty. And given how much animosity you still feel for Heritage, I'm sure you can understand that I also still haven't forgotten some of my bad experiences with sellers.

Scott, thank you for clarifying that on the board. Some of the new guys might have needed clarification.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Scott, thank you for clarifying that on the board. Some of the new guys might have needed clarification.

The frustrating part for us "new" guys is that he's basically saying he wouldn't do business with Jim Stinson, David Hunt, or Henry Yee. As someone who has done and plans to do business with all three men in the future, I would be interested to know what happened. As Scott correctly pointed out, to each his own as far as our individual experiences with these three guys, but I don't necessarily buy the turned leaf argument either.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Your list above names one of the most dishonest people I've ever dealt with in the hobby. I guess it's all just a matter of personal experiences - also, my experiences with Chris Ivy have been fantastic.

Scott - you have cast doubt about four people now and I would think that you should clear up that statement of yours.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Scott - you have cast doubt about four people now and I would think that you should clear up that statement of yours.

+1

[slidekellyslide]

Items missing from a Heritage auction?? The first place I'd check is Mike Gutierrez's basement.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Items missing from a Heritage auction?? The first place I'd check is Mike Gutierrez's basement.

Whoooo,,, that is .

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Items missing from a Heritage auction?? The first place I'd check is Mike Gutierrez's basement.

ha! and all you guys seeking revenge on heritage...best way is to show up at the n54 dinner and enjoy your dinner/drinks

[Heritage Sports]

Right off the bat, we’re going to start with an admission that we screwed up. Several of the accusations levied against Heritage are far off base, but we’ll acknowledge that we did make a mistake (or perhaps more than one) in regard to the initial poster’s situation. The lot had been listed in our previous Signature auction and when it did not sell, it was moved to our May auction. In the interim the consignor requested the return of the item and somehow we did not remove it from our books. The jersey was long gone by the time the May auction even began, but since the copy had been written and the photos taken, we didn’t realize it until the sale was complete. The later customer service issues were due to the fact that that department misinterpreted the data in our system—this is a 400+ employee company, and there was a breakdown in communication. I would suggest that should any situation like this arise again, the client would be best served by contacting the Sports department directly. Understand that we accept full fault on this and we make no excuses, only an explanation. I would hope that common sense would dictate that any belief that Heritage would risk its reputation, and the $800+ million in annual sales derived from it, on shady dealings over a piece worth hundreds of dollars, is in error.

And so we do apologize for our initial mistake, and for the imperfect handling of the resolution. But if our simple pledge of honest dealings isn’t enough, we would hope that a logical consideration of the risk/reward dynamic would be enough to convince even the most cynical among us.

We’d apply that statement to this troubling and utterly false suggestion of shill bidding as well. It simply does not happen at Heritage. It’s an unfortunate fact that a small percentage of bids are not honored. We do make every attempt to settle all accounts, but in the end it is simply impossible to extract payment from someone who is unwilling (or, in many cases, unable) to honor his bids. Heritage has, by far, the largest collectibles bidding clientele outside of eBay, and unfortunately there will be a few bad eggs in a carton that size. The upside is World Record prices—the bidder who paid $418,000 for the Bill Buckner ball, for example, had never bid in a collectibles auction before, but we were all over the news and he signed up the day before the auction. The downside with such a volume of clients is that a very small percentage of invoices in a 2,700 lot auction are inevitably not paid.

It should go without saying that all reneging bidders are banned. It likely doesn’t go without saying—so we’ll say it—that our consignment agreements clearly state that unsold properties can be transferred to the next available auction at our discretion. So, for example, Heritage was completely within its legal rights to retain Mr. Borkin’s unsold ring for placement in our August auction, but we instead returned it and forfeited several thousand dollars in commissions accordingly. This should stick a pin in any belief that shilling, or any other form of auction treachery, was at play.

And, speaking of banned clients, we’ll close with a clarification. Richard Simon and Travis Roste claim that their accounts were suspended by Heritage for negative comments posted on the board. While we’d admit there is an uncomfortable irony in simultaneously bashing and patronizing a business, that’s not the reason. Simon’s account, as well as several others’, was suspended for allegedly working in conjunction with a man known to the law enforcement world (and on this board and http://whitebetsy.wordpress.com/) as “The Cooperstown Forger.” Roste’s account was suspended after a campaign of harrassment of our executives in May of 2011.

To paraphrase the great Vince Lombardi, we won’t ever be perfect, but in the pursuit of perfection we’ll achieve greatness. We are human and mistakes will inevitably be made, but it’s important to bear in mind that boards such as these paint a very distorted picture. On any topic at all, as we all know, you’re far more likely to hear complaints than praise. Our most recent Signature Sports auction included over 400 consignors—ask around, and you’ll quickly learn that’s many multiples the hobby average. There’s a reason for this, and it’s the quality of our overall service. Heritage Sports sells close to 15,000 lots annually—that’s a huge volume of transactions, many multiples that of some of our top competitors. Babe Ruth struck out 1,330 times; Mariano Rivera has struck out once in his career. Who’s the better hitter?