Heritage Auction problem

[Heritage Sports]

Right off the bat, we’re going to start with an admission that we screwed up. Several of the accusations levied against Heritage are far off base, but we’ll acknowledge that we did make a mistake (or perhaps more than one) in regard to the initial poster’s situation. The lot had been listed in our previous Signature auction and when it did not sell, it was moved to our May auction. In the interim the consignor requested the return of the item and somehow we did not remove it from our books. The jersey was long gone by the time the May auction even began, but since the copy had been written and the photos taken, we didn’t realize it until the sale was complete. The later customer service issues were due to the fact that that department misinterpreted the data in our system—this is a 400+ employee company, and there was a breakdown in communication. I would suggest that should any situation like this arise again, the client would be best served by contacting the Sports department directly. Understand that we accept full fault on this and we make no excuses, only an explanation. I would hope that common sense would dictate that any belief that Heritage would risk its reputation, and the $800+ million in annual sales derived from it, on shady dealings over a piece worth hundreds of dollars, is in error.

And so we do apologize for our initial mistake, and for the imperfect handling of the resolution. But if our simple pledge of honest dealings isn’t enough, we would hope that a logical consideration of the risk/reward dynamic would be enough to convince even the most cynical among us.

We’d apply that statement to this troubling and utterly false suggestion of shill bidding as well. It simply does not happen at Heritage. It’s an unfortunate fact that a small percentage of bids are not honored. We do make every attempt to settle all accounts, but in the end it is simply impossible to extract payment from someone who is unwilling (or, in many cases, unable) to honor his bids. Heritage has, by far, the largest collectibles bidding clientele outside of eBay, and unfortunately there will be a few bad eggs in a carton that size. The upside is World Record prices—the bidder who paid $418,000 for the Bill Buckner ball, for example, had never bid in a collectibles auction before, but we were all over the news and he signed up the day before the auction. The downside with such a volume of clients is that a very small percentage of invoices in a 2,700 lot auction are inevitably not paid.

It should go without saying that all reneging bidders are banned. It likely doesn’t go without saying—so we’ll say it—that our consignment agreements clearly state that unsold properties can be transferred to the next available auction at our discretion. So, for example, Heritage was completely within its legal rights to retain Mr. Borkin’s unsold ring for placement in our August auction, but we instead returned it and forfeited several thousand dollars in commissions accordingly. This should stick a pin in any belief that shilling, or any other form of auction treachery, was at play.

And, speaking of banned clients, we’ll close with a clarification. Richard Simon and Travis Roste claim that their accounts were suspended by Heritage for negative comments posted on the board. While we’d admit there is an uncomfortable irony in simultaneously bashing and patronizing a business, that’s not the reason. Simon’s account, as well as several others’, was suspended for allegedly working in conjunction with a man known to the law enforcement world (and on this board and http://whitebetsy.wordpress.com/) as “The Cooperstown Forger.” Roste’s account was suspended after a campaign of harrassment of our executives in May of 2011.

To paraphrase the great Vince Lombardi, we won’t ever be perfect, but in the pursuit of perfection we’ll achieve greatness. We are human and mistakes will inevitably be made, but it’s important to bear in mind that boards such as these paint a very distorted picture. On any topic at all, as we all know, you’re far more likely to hear complaints than praise. Our most recent Signature Sports auction included over 400 consignors—ask around, and you’ll quickly learn that’s many multiples the hobby average. There’s a reason for this, and it’s the quality of our overall service. Heritage Sports sells close to 15,000 lots annually—that’s a huge volume of transactions, many multiples that of some of our top competitors. Babe Ruth struck out 1,330 times; Mariano Rivera has struck out once in his career. Who’s the better hitter?

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by Heritage Sports

And, speaking of banned clients, we’ll close with a clarification...Simon’s account, as well as several others’, was suspended for allegedly working in conjunction with a man known to the law enforcement world (and on this board and http://whitebetsy.wordpress.com/) as “The Cooperstown Forger.”

That is quite an accusation.

Wow.

And my apologies as a newbie if I'm late to the party on this one.

[batsballsbases]

Pass the pretzels this could be a long one!

[Big Six]

...and BOOM goes the dynamite!!!

[RichardSimon]

"And, speaking of banned clients, we’ll close with a clarification. Richard Simon and Travis Roste claim that their accounts were suspended by Heritage for negative comments posted on the board. While we’d admit there is an uncomfortable irony in simultaneously bashing and patronizing a business, that’s not the reason. Simon’s account, as well as several others’, was suspended for allegedly working in conjunction with a man known to the law enforcement world (and on this board and http://whitebetsy.wordpress.com/) as “The Cooperstown Forger.” Roste’s account was suspended after a campaign of harrassment of our executives in May of 2011."

Allegedly working in conjunction with The Cooperstown Forger??
I and several others?
What??
I have communicated on several occasions with the author of whitebetsy and he has commended the things I have done in the past to fight forgery. He went out of his way to introduce me to his site. We have had several lengthy e mail exchanges.
I am working in conjunction with a forger?
What the hell are you talking about Jonathan?
Accusing me of working in conjunction with a forger is a very serious accusation.
Perhaps you care to attempt to clarify that?
I was suspended by your organization shortly after I posted a comment(s) on this board in a thread that had already started. It did not seem there was any other reason. Hell of a coincidence if that was not the reason.

[thekingofclout]

Richard. I would think that Jonathan is insinuating that he knows who the Cooperstown Forger is, and that you may not. But you have still worked with him in the past in some way shape or form. And I'm pretty damn sure I nailed it as well. Just don't want to reveal it for any possible legal ramifications.

[slidekellyslide]

Hilarious...Heritage auctions works EVERY DAY with the "Cooperstown Thief".

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

Richard. I would think that Jonathan is insinuating that he knows who the Cooperstown Forger is, and that you may not. But you have still worked with him in the past in some way shape or form. And I'm pretty damn sure I nailed it as well. Just don't want to reveal it for any possible legal ramifications.

In some way, shape or form?
What does that mean?
What work did I do with him?
You are making accusations here, can you back them up?

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by Heritage Sports

Right off the bat, we’re going to start with an admission that we screwed up. Several of the accusations levied against Heritage are far off base, but we’ll acknowledge that we did make a mistake (or perhaps more than one) in regard to the initial poster’s situation. The lot had been listed in our previous Signature auction and when it did not sell, it was moved to our May auction. In the interim the consignor requested the return of the item and somehow we did not remove it from our books. The jersey was long gone by the time the May auction even began, but since the copy had been written and the photos taken, we didn’t realize it until the sale was complete. The later customer service issues were due to the fact that that department misinterpreted the data in our system—this is a 400+ employee company, and there was a breakdown in communication. I would suggest that should any situation like this arise again, the client would be best served by contacting the Sports department directly. Understand that we accept full fault on this and we make no excuses, only an explanation. I would hope that common sense would dictate that any belief that Heritage would risk its reputation, and the $800+ million in annual sales derived from it, on shady dealings over a piece worth hundreds of dollars, is in error.

And so we do apologize for our initial mistake, and for the imperfect handling of the resolution. But if our simple pledge of honest dealings isn’t enough, we would hope that a logical consideration of the risk/reward dynamic would be enough to convince even the most cynical among us.

We’d apply that statement to this troubling and utterly false suggestion of shill bidding as well. It simply does not happen at Heritage. It’s an unfortunate fact that a small percentage of bids are not honored. We do make every attempt to settle all accounts, but in the end it is simply impossible to extract payment from someone who is unwilling (or, in many cases, unable) to honor his bids. Heritage has, by far, the largest collectibles bidding clientele outside of eBay, and unfortunately there will be a few bad eggs in a carton that size. The upside is World Record prices—the bidder who paid $418,000 for the Bill Buckner ball, for example, had never bid in a collectibles auction before, but we were all over the news and he signed up the day before the auction. The downside with such a volume of clients is that a very small percentage of invoices in a 2,700 lot auction are inevitably not paid.

It should go without saying that all reneging bidders are banned. It likely doesn’t go without saying—so we’ll say it—that our consignment agreements clearly state that unsold properties can be transferred to the next available auction at our discretion. So, for example, Heritage was completely within its legal rights to retain Mr. Borkin’s unsold ring for placement in our August auction, but we instead returned it and forfeited several thousand dollars in commissions accordingly. This should stick a pin in any belief that shilling, or any other form of auction treachery, was at play.

And, speaking of banned clients, we’ll close with a clarification. Richard Simon and Travis Roste claim that their accounts were suspended by Heritage for negative comments posted on the board. While we’d admit there is an uncomfortable irony in simultaneously bashing and patronizing a business, that’s not the reason. Simon’s account, as well as several others’, was suspended for allegedly working in conjunction with a man known to the law enforcement world (and on this board and http://whitebetsy.wordpress.com/) as “The Cooperstown Forger.” Roste’s account was suspended after a campaign of harrassment of our executives in May of 2011.

To paraphrase the great Vince Lombardi, we won’t ever be perfect, but in the pursuit of perfection we’ll achieve greatness. We are human and mistakes will inevitably be made, but it’s important to bear in mind that boards such as these paint a very distorted picture. On any topic at all, as we all know, you’re far more likely to hear complaints than praise. Our most recent Signature Sports auction included over 400 consignors—ask around, and you’ll quickly learn that’s many multiples the hobby average. There’s a reason for this, and it’s the quality of our overall service. Heritage Sports sells close to 15,000 lots annually—that’s a huge volume of transactions, many multiples that of some of our top competitors. Babe Ruth struck out 1,330 times; Mariano Rivera has struck out once in his career. Who’s the better hitter?

So you had to go there and tell this board why two members were banned from bidding? I would think that this would be a business decision that would be just between both parties and not to be shared with the world. And to level accusations against someone's reputation by linking Mr. Simon with a known forger would possibly be detrimental to his livelyhood is just plain unthinkable to me that you would do this.

I have never done business or spoken to Mr. Simon but I have done business with Heritage and will no longer spend my dollars with a company that would be so willing to throw their customers and their reputations under the bus to make themselves look better. I would think that the attitude that has been displayed by a Heritage executive here would do more harm to their business than do them any good. I am constantly amazed how owners and executives of companies in this hobby always seem to shoot themselves in the foot. Heritage has been added to my "do not buy" list....a list that seems to be getting smaller and smaller all the time.

And for the record, my name is Andrew White and I approve this message

[travrosty]

Especially since their reason i was banned is not true. I harrassed no one, now they level the accusation I am a harrasser. Not true. I don't think they liked the fact that a few hobbyists seem to know more about boxing autographs than the people they employ as "experts". they started to look bad and they can't have that so they throw the baby out with the bath water.

What people don't know is that there is a someone else who got banned, who is a boxing autograph hobbyist who never worked with any blog site, and also didn't harrass anyone over at heritage, and he too got his account banned. They don't seem to like boxing autograph collectors who know their trade.


When the bad ty cobb ball preview hit deadspin.com, heritage took the cobb listing down, but then they redirected the URL to a page that was suppose to be critical of the person who wrote the story.

so when people went to deadspin.com, and clicked on the link that was suppose to bring them to the bad cobb ball, they were redirected to a page that took a potshot at the writer of the story.

Is that professionalism by an auction house? Playing games like that instead of addressing the issue of why this ball was even up on their website, and with a TPA auction loa listed with it as well? Their answer to this is to redirect a link and take a potshot at someone? Professionals???

[mcgwirecom]

This is kinda off topic but not really.

I had never bought anything from Heritage before, but I bid on an item in their Sunday auction. This auction was on 5/20. I paid for my item on 5/23 in the a.m. I used a bank transfer because I figured that would get it moving the fastest and that way the auction house doesn't get charged a fee like the credit cards do. I figured thats what they would prefer. So last week I still didn't have the item and I emailed them. They said that I made the payment on 5/23 but it didn't cleaar til 5/30. Even though I made a direct bank transfer it needs to clear? OK maybe I'm confused. So now it should ship out on 5/30 right? I just emailed last night and said I had still not gotten it. I get the email back today that it is still in shipping! Hasn't even left! And this is 21 days after I paid. And 14 if you think my payment needed to clear. So this is my first dealing with them. Doesn't bode well. Maybe I will get my account cancelled now?

[slidekellyslide]

Obviously they are so large they really don't care how many Net54 bidders they lose every time Scheier posts here, but I've said it before and will say it again..the person they chose to represent their business on Net54 is arrogant and condescending. None of this surprises me though, they have in their employ a man who is banned from the Cooperstown Baseball Hall of Fame library which IMO puts them up there with the likes of Coaches Corner.

[Splinte1941]

To defend Heritage you'd have to be:

A)On the payroll/take

B) A moron

C) In bed with the owners/employees, financially or otherwise.

D) A moron

E) A moron

F) A satisfied customer

That's just my $.02

[RichardSimon]

Jonathan,
I guess I should consider it a badge of honor to have you attempt to defame me. It seems that every time you post here you cause far more harm to your organization than if you did not post.
There have been so many negative posts here about your organization and its employees that it just brings a laugh to my face.
Keep up the good work and BE PROUD of YOUR honest and quality work and bogus attempts to defame me.
Look how this thread has gone against Heritage. Like I said, good work Jonathan.

[deebro041]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

To defend Heritage you'd have to be:

A)On the payroll/take

B) A moron

C) In bed with the owners/employees, financially or otherwise.

D) A moron

E) A moron

F) A satisfied customer

That's just my $.02

OR....Your initials just happen to be J S !! Just kidding lol

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

Is that professionalism by an auction house? Playing games like that instead of addressing the issue of why this ball was even up on their website, and with a TPA auction loa listed with it as well? Their answer to this is to redirect a link and take a potshot at someone? Professionals???

+1
Well said Travis.
Their behavior is more like a petulant child than a professional auction house.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

+1
Well said Travis.
Their behavior is more like a petulant child than a professional auction house.

+2

[shelly]

I have been in this hobby for fifty years, and as most of you know, 12 years ago, I was arrested for selling forged material. I was an idiot for selling bad merchandise; it was a mistake. I really have tried to do things right since then.

The reason I am even getting involved with this thread, is the way Heritage mentioned Richard and Travis in their post on this board. I really don't know Travis, but Richard Simon is a friend of mine, and I felt that because of my past and our friendship, they could be saying that I might be the HOF forger, or that Chris Williams could be the Cooperstown Forger, because he is also a friend of Richard. Jim Stinson is a friend of Richard; is he the Cooperstown Forger?

Heritage is saying things that make everyone on this board look like they could be the bad guy.

I have dealt with one of their wonder-kins in the past named Mike Gutierrez, and I have a great deal to say about Mark Jordan. I will be discussing them in great lengths, once I receive some needed items. These are the people Heritage chooses to associate with while trying to use innuendo to denigrate others.

Leon, you of all people, should protest such innuendos being placed on the board. Just pure crap to make people look bad without any proof at all being offered.

If people disagree with Heritage that is not a reason for Heritage to remove them from participating in their auctions.

Heritage, you say you know who this forger is. Tell us who you think it is. The truth is your defense. You take pride in the fact that you do $700 million in business annually. Then please explain to me why you are acting like a five and dime store.(Just showing my age).

I would also bet the letter written so perfectly by you, was done by your warm blooded lawyer.

[travrosty]

Shelly,

thank you for your post, I haven't met Shelly or known him but i do agree that the way Heritage handled it was not professional and heaven knows me and a few of my boxing friends bent over backwards to try to help them with their boxing offerings but they are always the smartest guy in the room according to them, so we gave up trying to help.

A bad piece like the "signed" Mike Tyson preprint under the frame just ended up selling, even with a cert from a major TPA.

If they have something to say they should just come out and say it and stop "implying" things.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by whitehse

So you had to go there and tell this board why two members were banned from bidding? I would think that this would be a business decision that would be just between both parties and not to be shared with the world. And to level accusations against someone's reputation by linking Mr. Simon with a known forger would possibly be detrimental to his livelyhood is just plain unthinkable to me that you would do this.

I have never done business or spoken to Mr. Simon but I have done business with Heritage and will no longer spend my dollars with a company that would be so willing to throw their customers and their reputations under the bus to make themselves look better. I would think that the attitude that has been displayed by a Heritage executive here would do more harm to their business than do them any good. I am constantly amazed how owners and executives of companies in this hobby always seem to shoot themselves in the foot. Heritage has been added to my "do not buy" list....a list that seems to be getting smaller and smaller all the time.

And for the record, my name is Andrew White and I approve this message

I already have been contacted by a lawyer/acquaintance (well known in the hobby and to Net54 members) encouraging me to take action.
I have also received information on several other customer service complaints about Heritage by people who are afraid of them and don't want to post, but wanted me to know their problem and wanted me to know that they thought that Jonathan is full of crap.
It is a shame that some people are afraid to speak their minds due to auction house tactics designed to inhibit criticism.
Auction houses in glass houses should not be hurling around stones though. Especially with their roster.
And to clarify one more thing in Jonathan's post, I do not patronize Heritage, I have never bought an item from them, I have never sold an item through them.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Jonathan, I found it very disappointing to read that you would even imply that Richard Simon is "allegedly working in conjunction with a man known to the law enforcement world (and on this board and http://whitebetsy.wordpress.com/) as “The Cooperstown Forger." This is a man who has stuck his neck out fighting the sellers (and the sources) of forgeries. To even imply that about Richard Simon is ludicrous.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Jonathan, I found it very disappointing to read that you would even imply that Richard Simon is "allegedly working in conjunction with a man known to the law enforcement world (and on this board and http://whitebetsy.wordpress.com/) as “The Cooperstown Forger." This is a man who has stuck his neck out fighting the sellers (and the sources) of forgeries. To even imply that about Richard Simon is ludicrous.

I have to concur...what a tra la la goon D A. Admitting their mistake was all that was needed. It just goes to show what kind of idiots are in the Memorabilia Auction business. Complete and utter jack asses. Enjoy your little hobby, I'll stick to Corvettes for now.......