Heritage Auction problem

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

I'll disagree and take Jim Stinson, David Hunt, Henry Yee, and Richard Simon for $500 Alex...

Your list above names one of the most dishonest people I've ever dealt with in the hobby. I guess it's all just a matter of personal experiences - also, my experiences with Chris Ivy have been fantastic.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Your list above names one of the most dishonest people I've ever dealt with in the hobby. I guess it's all just a matter of personal experiences - also, my experiences with Chris Ivy have been fantastic.

Would you care to share your experience with the person in question?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

Would you care to share your experience with the person in question?

Jake, I probably should not have responded to your post, but it offended me as you contrasted an honest person (Chris) with someone who at least at one point in time was blatantly dishonest. I'm told by a board member who I have the greatest respect for that this person has turned over a new leaf. That's great, but he used up all three strikes with me.

Again, if Chris' name had not been mentioned disparagingly, I would not have responded. Rest easy realizing that my opinion isn't worth a hill of beans to any of the new guys here, and the old ones know exactly who and what I'm talking about.

Richard - I have no reason to doubt your honesty. And given how much animosity you still feel for Heritage, I'm sure you can understand that I also still haven't forgotten some of my bad experiences with sellers.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Jake, I probably should not have responded to your post, but it offended me as you contrasted an honest person (Chris) with someone who at least at one point in time was blatantly dishonest. I'm told by a board member who I have the greatest respect for that this person has turned over a new leaf. That's great, but he used up all three strikes with me.

Again, if Chris' name had not been mentioned disparagingly, I would not have responded. Rest easy realizing that my opinion isn't worth a hill of beans to any of the new guys here, and the old ones know exactly who and what I'm talking about.

Richard - I have no reason to doubt your honesty. And given how much animosity you still feel for Heritage, I'm sure you can understand that I also still haven't forgotten some of my bad experiences with sellers.

Scott, thank you for clarifying that on the board. Some of the new guys might have needed clarification.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Scott, thank you for clarifying that on the board. Some of the new guys might have needed clarification.

The frustrating part for us "new" guys is that he's basically saying he wouldn't do business with Jim Stinson, David Hunt, or Henry Yee. As someone who has done and plans to do business with all three men in the future, I would be interested to know what happened. As Scott correctly pointed out, to each his own as far as our individual experiences with these three guys, but I don't necessarily buy the turned leaf argument either.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Your list above names one of the most dishonest people I've ever dealt with in the hobby. I guess it's all just a matter of personal experiences - also, my experiences with Chris Ivy have been fantastic.

Scott - you have cast doubt about four people now and I would think that you should clear up that statement of yours.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Scott - you have cast doubt about four people now and I would think that you should clear up that statement of yours.

+1

[slidekellyslide]

Items missing from a Heritage auction?? The first place I'd check is Mike Gutierrez's basement.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Items missing from a Heritage auction?? The first place I'd check is Mike Gutierrez's basement.

Whoooo,,, that is .

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Items missing from a Heritage auction?? The first place I'd check is Mike Gutierrez's basement.

ha! and all you guys seeking revenge on heritage...best way is to show up at the n54 dinner and enjoy your dinner/drinks

[Heritage Sports]

Right off the bat, we’re going to start with an admission that we screwed up. Several of the accusations levied against Heritage are far off base, but we’ll acknowledge that we did make a mistake (or perhaps more than one) in regard to the initial poster’s situation. The lot had been listed in our previous Signature auction and when it did not sell, it was moved to our May auction. In the interim the consignor requested the return of the item and somehow we did not remove it from our books. The jersey was long gone by the time the May auction even began, but since the copy had been written and the photos taken, we didn’t realize it until the sale was complete. The later customer service issues were due to the fact that that department misinterpreted the data in our system—this is a 400+ employee company, and there was a breakdown in communication. I would suggest that should any situation like this arise again, the client would be best served by contacting the Sports department directly. Understand that we accept full fault on this and we make no excuses, only an explanation. I would hope that common sense would dictate that any belief that Heritage would risk its reputation, and the $800+ million in annual sales derived from it, on shady dealings over a piece worth hundreds of dollars, is in error.

And so we do apologize for our initial mistake, and for the imperfect handling of the resolution. But if our simple pledge of honest dealings isn’t enough, we would hope that a logical consideration of the risk/reward dynamic would be enough to convince even the most cynical among us.

We’d apply that statement to this troubling and utterly false suggestion of shill bidding as well. It simply does not happen at Heritage. It’s an unfortunate fact that a small percentage of bids are not honored. We do make every attempt to settle all accounts, but in the end it is simply impossible to extract payment from someone who is unwilling (or, in many cases, unable) to honor his bids. Heritage has, by far, the largest collectibles bidding clientele outside of eBay, and unfortunately there will be a few bad eggs in a carton that size. The upside is World Record prices—the bidder who paid $418,000 for the Bill Buckner ball, for example, had never bid in a collectibles auction before, but we were all over the news and he signed up the day before the auction. The downside with such a volume of clients is that a very small percentage of invoices in a 2,700 lot auction are inevitably not paid.

It should go without saying that all reneging bidders are banned. It likely doesn’t go without saying—so we’ll say it—that our consignment agreements clearly state that unsold properties can be transferred to the next available auction at our discretion. So, for example, Heritage was completely within its legal rights to retain Mr. Borkin’s unsold ring for placement in our August auction, but we instead returned it and forfeited several thousand dollars in commissions accordingly. This should stick a pin in any belief that shilling, or any other form of auction treachery, was at play.

And, speaking of banned clients, we’ll close with a clarification. Richard Simon and Travis Roste claim that their accounts were suspended by Heritage for negative comments posted on the board. While we’d admit there is an uncomfortable irony in simultaneously bashing and patronizing a business, that’s not the reason. Simon’s account, as well as several others’, was suspended for allegedly working in conjunction with a man known to the law enforcement world (and on this board and http://whitebetsy.wordpress.com/) as “The Cooperstown Forger.” Roste’s account was suspended after a campaign of harrassment of our executives in May of 2011.

To paraphrase the great Vince Lombardi, we won’t ever be perfect, but in the pursuit of perfection we’ll achieve greatness. We are human and mistakes will inevitably be made, but it’s important to bear in mind that boards such as these paint a very distorted picture. On any topic at all, as we all know, you’re far more likely to hear complaints than praise. Our most recent Signature Sports auction included over 400 consignors—ask around, and you’ll quickly learn that’s many multiples the hobby average. There’s a reason for this, and it’s the quality of our overall service. Heritage Sports sells close to 15,000 lots annually—that’s a huge volume of transactions, many multiples that of some of our top competitors. Babe Ruth struck out 1,330 times; Mariano Rivera has struck out once in his career. Who’s the better hitter?

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by Heritage Sports

And, speaking of banned clients, we’ll close with a clarification...Simon’s account, as well as several others’, was suspended for allegedly working in conjunction with a man known to the law enforcement world (and on this board and http://whitebetsy.wordpress.com/) as “The Cooperstown Forger.”

That is quite an accusation.

Wow.

And my apologies as a newbie if I'm late to the party on this one.

[batsballsbases]

Pass the pretzels this could be a long one!

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by Heritage Sports

Right off the bat, we’re going to start with an admission that we screwed up. Several of the accusations levied against Heritage are far off base, but we’ll acknowledge that we did make a mistake (or perhaps more than one) in regard to the initial poster’s situation. The lot had been listed in our previous Signature auction and when it did not sell, it was moved to our May auction. In the interim the consignor requested the return of the item and somehow we did not remove it from our books. The jersey was long gone by the time the May auction even began, but since the copy had been written and the photos taken, we didn’t realize it until the sale was complete. The later customer service issues were due to the fact that that department misinterpreted the data in our system—this is a 400+ employee company, and there was a breakdown in communication. I would suggest that should any situation like this arise again, the client would be best served by contacting the Sports department directly. Understand that we accept full fault on this and we make no excuses, only an explanation. I would hope that common sense would dictate that any belief that Heritage would risk its reputation, and the $800+ million in annual sales derived from it, on shady dealings over a piece worth hundreds of dollars, is in error.

And so we do apologize for our initial mistake, and for the imperfect handling of the resolution. But if our simple pledge of honest dealings isn’t enough, we would hope that a logical consideration of the risk/reward dynamic would be enough to convince even the most cynical among us.

We’d apply that statement to this troubling and utterly false suggestion of shill bidding as well. It simply does not happen at Heritage. It’s an unfortunate fact that a small percentage of bids are not honored. We do make every attempt to settle all accounts, but in the end it is simply impossible to extract payment from someone who is unwilling (or, in many cases, unable) to honor his bids. Heritage has, by far, the largest collectibles bidding clientele outside of eBay, and unfortunately there will be a few bad eggs in a carton that size. The upside is World Record prices—the bidder who paid $418,000 for the Bill Buckner ball, for example, had never bid in a collectibles auction before, but we were all over the news and he signed up the day before the auction. The downside with such a volume of clients is that a very small percentage of invoices in a 2,700 lot auction are inevitably not paid.

It should go without saying that all reneging bidders are banned. It likely doesn’t go without saying—so we’ll say it—that our consignment agreements clearly state that unsold properties can be transferred to the next available auction at our discretion. So, for example, Heritage was completely within its legal rights to retain Mr. Borkin’s unsold ring for placement in our August auction, but we instead returned it and forfeited several thousand dollars in commissions accordingly. This should stick a pin in any belief that shilling, or any other form of auction treachery, was at play.

And, speaking of banned clients, we’ll close with a clarification. Richard Simon and Travis Roste claim that their accounts were suspended by Heritage for negative comments posted on the board. While we’d admit there is an uncomfortable irony in simultaneously bashing and patronizing a business, that’s not the reason. Simon’s account, as well as several others’, was suspended for allegedly working in conjunction with a man known to the law enforcement world (and on this board and http://whitebetsy.wordpress.com/) as “The Cooperstown Forger.” Roste’s account was suspended after a campaign of harrassment of our executives in May of 2011.

To paraphrase the great Vince Lombardi, we won’t ever be perfect, but in the pursuit of perfection we’ll achieve greatness. We are human and mistakes will inevitably be made, but it’s important to bear in mind that boards such as these paint a very distorted picture. On any topic at all, as we all know, you’re far more likely to hear complaints than praise. Our most recent Signature Sports auction included over 400 consignors—ask around, and you’ll quickly learn that’s many multiples the hobby average. There’s a reason for this, and it’s the quality of our overall service. Heritage Sports sells close to 15,000 lots annually—that’s a huge volume of transactions, many multiples that of some of our top competitors. Babe Ruth struck out 1,330 times; Mariano Rivera has struck out once in his career. Who’s the better hitter?

So you had to go there and tell this board why two members were banned from bidding? I would think that this would be a business decision that would be just between both parties and not to be shared with the world. And to level accusations against someone's reputation by linking Mr. Simon with a known forger would possibly be detrimental to his livelyhood is just plain unthinkable to me that you would do this.

I have never done business or spoken to Mr. Simon but I have done business with Heritage and will no longer spend my dollars with a company that would be so willing to throw their customers and their reputations under the bus to make themselves look better. I would think that the attitude that has been displayed by a Heritage executive here would do more harm to their business than do them any good. I am constantly amazed how owners and executives of companies in this hobby always seem to shoot themselves in the foot. Heritage has been added to my "do not buy" list....a list that seems to be getting smaller and smaller all the time.

And for the record, my name is Andrew White and I approve this message

[travrosty]

Especially since their reason i was banned is not true. I harrassed no one, now they level the accusation I am a harrasser. Not true. I don't think they liked the fact that a few hobbyists seem to know more about boxing autographs than the people they employ as "experts". they started to look bad and they can't have that so they throw the baby out with the bath water.

What people don't know is that there is a someone else who got banned, who is a boxing autograph hobbyist who never worked with any blog site, and also didn't harrass anyone over at heritage, and he too got his account banned. They don't seem to like boxing autograph collectors who know their trade.


When the bad ty cobb ball preview hit deadspin.com, heritage took the cobb listing down, but then they redirected the URL to a page that was suppose to be critical of the person who wrote the story.

so when people went to deadspin.com, and clicked on the link that was suppose to bring them to the bad cobb ball, they were redirected to a page that took a potshot at the writer of the story.

Is that professionalism by an auction house? Playing games like that instead of addressing the issue of why this ball was even up on their website, and with a TPA auction loa listed with it as well? Their answer to this is to redirect a link and take a potshot at someone? Professionals???

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by whitehse

So you had to go there and tell this board why two members were banned from bidding? I would think that this would be a business decision that would be just between both parties and not to be shared with the world. And to level accusations against someone's reputation by linking Mr. Simon with a known forger would possibly be detrimental to his livelyhood is just plain unthinkable to me that you would do this.

I have never done business or spoken to Mr. Simon but I have done business with Heritage and will no longer spend my dollars with a company that would be so willing to throw their customers and their reputations under the bus to make themselves look better. I would think that the attitude that has been displayed by a Heritage executive here would do more harm to their business than do them any good. I am constantly amazed how owners and executives of companies in this hobby always seem to shoot themselves in the foot. Heritage has been added to my "do not buy" list....a list that seems to be getting smaller and smaller all the time.

And for the record, my name is Andrew White and I approve this message

I already have been contacted by a lawyer/acquaintance (well known in the hobby and to Net54 members) encouraging me to take action.
I have also received information on several other customer service complaints about Heritage by people who are afraid of them and don't want to post, but wanted me to know their problem and wanted me to know that they thought that Jonathan is full of crap.
It is a shame that some people are afraid to speak their minds due to auction house tactics designed to inhibit criticism.
Auction houses in glass houses should not be hurling around stones though. Especially with their roster.
And to clarify one more thing in Jonathan's post, I do not patronize Heritage, I have never bought an item from them, I have never sold an item through them.