T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[KingFisk]

Thanks Barry! Leave it to me to disappoint the smartest guys in the hobby with my dumb typo... Would love to see you and the other fellows at another dinner this summer!

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[barrysloate]

I'll be available any time in June, but I am going to let somebody else put it together.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


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A Net54er emailed me asking how did I know when the end of the T206 print runs occurred. Years ago, an American Litho (ALC) ledger dated Feb 1911 was discovered
which instructed Factory #30 employees to insert a T206 card and a T80 card in a LENOX cigarette pack. Early in 1911, ALC started printing their Gold-Bordered series
of cards (T43, T57, T80, T99, T205, etc.). Therefore, it's fair to conclude that the T206 era ended then with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, LENOX, and UZIT print runs.

At the beginning of 1911, ALC launched their Gold-Border series of cards. The T80 cards depicting worldwide Military subjects was one of the 1st issues. The artwork of
the T80 set (50 cards) is very distinctive and their gold borders are quite ornate. The T80 cards were printed with 5 different backs, 4 of which are shown here (missing
is the very rare OLD MILL).


T80 cards




WOW ! If we only had a "time-machine" that would revert us back to the Spring of 1911 (just for a day), so we can open up a LENOX pack and experience the thrill of
finding a T80 U.S. Brigadier General and a T206 Ty Cobb in the same pack of cigarettes


TED Z
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[tedzan]

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Some nice LENOX cards, guys. Especially, Scott's Walter Johnson. Thanks for posting all of them.

I'm still searching for the following 350/460 series subjects, which have yet to be confirmed with the Black LENOX back. I expect that most of them (if not all of them)
will eventually be discovered. Although, I have my reservations regarding the LaJoie card.

OK, show them if you have them.....especially if you have any one of these 18 which are "missing-in-action"..... Thanks.






Series 350/460 subjects which are NOT CONFIRMED with a black LENOX back (so far).

Conroy (bat) **
Doolan (bat)
Evers (with bat-Chicago)
Jennings (two hands)
Lajoie (bat) **
Mathewson (dark cap)
Mullin (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky) **
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing) **
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Jeff Sweeney (catching)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right shoulder) **
Wilhelm (bat)

** Note Confirmed with the Brown LENOX back.


TED Z
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[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


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Just another day to play and display some LENOX cards. Ungraded Vg cards, or perhaps a PSA 8 card.....all are appreciated. Condition is not a factor.
Looking forward to seeing some more of your LENOX gems.

The LENOX and UZIT cards are like 1952 TOPPS Hi # cards....printed last and printed least.
But, certainly much more rare than 1952 TOPPS Hi # cards.


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TED Z
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[David R]

T206 Jake Beckley - this is part of my t206 HOF back run

[tedzan]

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And, here is one more Blank-Back to add to the mix. I don't own this card any more, since I traded it to Chris and Kristin Buckler (Louisville collectors).






Well, this T206 proof raises the tally to 19 blank-back cards posted here. Perhaps, we'll get a 20th B-B posted.



TED Z
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[Marslife]

Here is my BB snoddy, cool card! sorry for the bad pic, lost my key to my display cabinet (high security) :-)

Nice BB's fellas!

Cliff

snoddy.jpg

[Tom S.]

Here's the only one that I own. Still waiting for the guys at T206Resource.com to add it to their confirmed list...

[tedzan]

Neat stuff, thanks for sharing your Blank-Back T206's with us....David, Cliff, and Tom.


The tally is up to 21 blank-back cards posted here. Perhaps, we'll get a some more B-B posted.


TED Z
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[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theories, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *




Approx 90% of the PIEDMONT 150 cards of the green portrait Cobb are found off-center (to the top). Furthermore, the Cy Young portrait with the PIEDMONT 150 back
is usually off-center (to the top). I can attest to this, having sampled over 400 cards of each of these T206 subjects since 2005.

You may ask why I am concerned over this ? Why not just select a PIEDMONT 350 Cobb (which is usually well-centered). Simply stated, just call me a perfectionist, who
insists on having well-centered PIEDMONT 150 Cobb and Cy Young card in the 150 Series section of my all-PIEDMONT set. Quaint thinking, perhaps, but that's just me.
I've had this Cobb for many years. It's one of the best looking T206's in my collection. Eventually, I intend to get it graded. My guess is that it will get a high #.

The green Cobb and the Cy Young portrait were most likely printed in the top row of their sheet. And, these early PIEDMONT sheets were mis-cut resulting in the narrow
top borders on the cards located on their top row.
American Lithographic (ALC) printed the PIEDMONT brand first in press runs of T206 backs (on the preprinted sheets of T206 fronts). Proof of this process is revealed by
the Magie and Joe Doyle error cards. The Magie is ONLY a PIEDMONT 150 card, and the Doyle error is ONLY a PIEDMONT 350 card.

Having said all that, I'm curious....do any of you serious T206 collectors have similar "pet peeves" regarding certain T206 cards ?


If so, show-n-tell about your T206 "peeves"



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
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[MVSNYC]

Ted (Hi Ted), I think collectors opt for the OC Green Cobb in the 150 series (versus 350) because the ink and clarity is always better. Maybe Cy too.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theories, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *




Approx 90% of the PIEDMONT 150 cards of the green portrait Cobb are found off-center (to the top). Furthermore, the Cy Young portrait with the PIEDMONT 150 back
is usually off-center (to the top). I can attest to this, having sampled over 400 cards of each of these T206 subjects since 2005.

You may ask why I am concerned over this ? Why not just select a PIEDMONT 350 Cobb (which is usually well-centered). Simply stated, just call me a perfectionist, who
insists on having well-centered PIEDMONT 150 Cobb and Cy Young card in the 150 Series section of my all-PIEDMONT set. Quaint thinking, perhaps, but that's just me.
I've had this Cobb for many years. It's one of the best looking T206's in my collection. Eventually, I intend to get it graded. My guess is that it will get a high #.

The green Cobb and the Cy Young portrait were most likely printed in the top row of their sheet. And, these early PIEDMONT sheets were mis-cut resulting in the narrow
top borders on the cards located on their top row.
American Lithographic (ALC) printed the PIEDMONT brand first in press runs of T206 backs (on the preprinted sheets of T206 fronts). Proof of this process is revealed by
the Magie and Joe Doyle error cards. The Magie is ONLY a PIEDMONT 150 card, and the Doyle error is ONLY a PIEDMONT 350 card.

Having said all that, I'm curious....do any of you serious T206 collectors have similar "pet peeves" regarding certain T206 cards ?


If so, show-n-tell about your T206 "peeves"



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
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They were definitely in the top row of some of the piedmont 150 sheets

Young Large Top Border.jpg

but they weren't just in the top row

Young (Port) Split Front PD 150.jpg

Cobb.jpg

they are both also on the same piedmont 150 plate scratch sheets. This isn't
necessarily the full sheet but it is the minimum size of the sheet based on
lining all the known plate scratches of these subjects up.

0 Sheet 2B.jpg

Your Cobb does have a plate scratch and the scratch lines up here on the sheet

01 Sheet 2B.jpg

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theories, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *




Pat R

I really appreciate your very informative response to my post regarding the PIEDMONT 150 green Cobb and Cy Young.....very, very interesting.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

[Rhotchkiss]

All those guys were on same sheet? That is one hell of a sheet!

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

All those guys were on same sheet? That is one hell of a sheet!

It is a sheet with a lot of great players and I believe Wagner might have been on the same sheet for a short period.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ighlight=strip

[tedzan]

I will throw in my Harry Davis to keep this thread active. Its back is somewhat rough, nevertheless,
you acquire these rare PIEDMONT #42 cards any way you can find them.






TED Z

T206 Reference
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[DeanH3]

My only Pied 42

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

My only Pied 42

Hello Dean

Thanks for posting your Walter Johnson. It appears to be a very sharp-looking card.

I'm curious as to why it is only a Grade 30 ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hello Dean

Thanks for posting your Walter Johnson. It appears to be a very sharp-looking card.

I'm curious as to why it is only a Grade 30 ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
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Hi Ted. There are a few paper pulls on the back. I assume from scrapbook removal. Not obtrusive at all.

[orioles70]

Ted,

I did not realize a T205 Huggins and T205 Wheat Drum back had been found? Do you have pics?

John Bowden

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by orioles70

Ted,

I did not realize a T205 Huggins and T205 Wheat Drum back had been found? Do you have pics?

John Bowden

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Hi John

The Check-list in Post #1507 simply lists the T205 subjects ("Exclusive 32") printed with the A - B - C -D pattern.
The AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, and CYCLE backs have all been confirmed. Five DRUM backs (bold lettering)
identified in this list have yet to be confirmed with DRUM.

James Austin
John Bates
Beals Becker
George Bell
William Bergen
Russell Blackburne
Albert Bridwell
Mordecai Brown
Harold Chase (border on shirt)
Frank Corridon
Thomas Downey
Louis Evans
George Graham (blue signature)
Buck Herzog
Richard Hoblitzell
Miller Huggins
Jack Knight
A. Latham
Thomas Leach
John Lobert

Briscoe Lord
Patrick Moran
Frederick Olmstead
George Paskert
Fred Payne
Edward Phelps
John Quinn
Lewis Richie
David Shean
George Stone
Zach Wheat
Harry Wolter


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[orioles70]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi John



The Check-list in Post #1507 simply lists the T205 subjects ("Exclusive 32") printed with the A - B - C -D pattern.

The AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, and CYCLE backs have all been confirmed. Five DRUM backs (bold lettering)

identified in this list have yet to be confirmed with DRUM.



James Austin

John Bates

Beals Becker

George Bell

William Bergen

Russell Blackburne

Albert Bridwell

Mordecai Brown

Harold Chase (border on shirt)

Frank Corridon

Thomas Downey

Louis Evans

George Graham (blue signature)

Buck Herzog

Richard Hoblitzell

Miller Huggins

Jack Knight

A. Latham

Thomas Leach

John Lobert



Briscoe Lord

Patrick Moran

Frederick Olmstead

George Paskert

Fred Payne

Edward Phelps

John Quinn

Lewis Richie

David Shean

George Stone

Zach Wheat

Harry Wolter





TED Z



T206 Reference

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Ted,

Your post in #1507 states this.

"I have confirmed that exactly 32 cards (of the 208) in the T205 set were printed with these four backs."

So you can see how someone reading your statement would think they have been confirmed and not merely believe they were printed.

John



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[tedzan]

John

My bad.....I posted that list in a hurry, and forgot to proof-read it.

I appreciate you bringing it to my attention. It has been modified.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

Jack Quinn is another one of my T205 Yankees which was printed in the EXCLUSIVE 32 group. I only need one card to complete this run.
You guessed it.... it's the DRUM.
Furthermore, I need not search for a PIEDMONT #42 card of Quinn because it appears that HASSAN Factory #649 and PIEDMONT #42
are mutually-exclusive with respect to subjects in the EXCLUSIVE 32 group. And, I know his HASSAN Factory #649 card exists.*



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*P. S.... Somewhere in my T205 / T206 archives there is a HASSAN Factory #649 card of Quinn. I will post it here when I find it.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[orioles70]

I checked my T205 set and have the following Piedmont Factory 42 cards:

Bill Bergen

G.C. Ferguson

Ray Fisher

Dick Hoblitzell - name correct no Cin

Ed Reulbach

John Rowan

Tony Smith

Ed Sweeney




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[tedzan]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Ted, I'm currently going through and scanning what I have for T213-1. I will get back to you on an exact count later this week. I have upgraded along the way, so most of my near set is free of back damage, but I have a lot of lower grade duplicates with all sorts of back damage. Here's a Mathewson with back damage.

I don't know very much about the origins or packing of Coupon cards, and would listen to all ideas about them.

Rob

Whenever you report back is fine with me. I never get tired of our 1910 COUPON discussions. You and I really
appreciate the complexity of this 68-card set.


Ted Breitenstein is my favorite Southern Leaguer in this set. Ted pitched a "perfect" No-Hitter in his 1st Major
League start, pitching for the St. Louis Browns (Oct. 4th, 1891).







One of my favorite Major Leaguers in this set is Miller Huggins. He was a tough card to find, that fit nicely into my Miller Huggins collection.

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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

Suggested here is a lesser challenge than putting together this set. Try doing a fun-run of your favorite Major League team.
I am having fun doing this with several teams. Currently, Detroit being my best (I still need Donovan, Killian, and Schmidt).




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1910 COUPON Major League checklist for forming TEAM runs......

Becker......Boston NL
Bender (trees)......A's
Byrne......St Louis NL
Campbell......Cincinnati
Chance (portrait-yellow)......Chicago NL
Charles......St Louis NL
Chase (blue portrait)......New York AL
Chase (dark cap)......New York AL
Cobb (red portrait)......Detroit
Cree......New York AL
Donovan (throwing)......Detroit
Doolan (fielding)......Phillies
Dubuc......Cincinnati
Dunn......Brooklyn
Engle......New York AL
Evers (bat-yellow sky)......Chicago NL
Fletcher.....New York NL
Hartsel......A's
Hoffman......St Louis AL
Howell (portrait)......St Louis AL

Huggins (portrait).....Cincinnati
Huggins (hands at mouth)......Cincinnati
Hunter......Brooklyn
Killian (portrait)......Detroit
Knabe......Phillies
LaPorte......New York AL
Lennox......Brooklyn
Marquard (portrait)......New York NL
Mathewson (dark cap)......New York NL
Marshall......Brooklyn
McBride......Washington
McElveen......Brooklyn
McIntyre.......Detroit
Mitchell.......Cincinnati
Mowery......Cincinnati
Myers (bat)......New York NL
Myers (fielding)......New York NL
Paskert.......Cincinnati
Rhoades (hands at chest)......Cleveland
Rossman......Detroit

Schmidt (portrait)......Detroit
Starr......Boston NL
Street (portrait)......Washington
Summers......Detroit
Sweeney.......Boston NL
Thomas......A's
Willett......Detroit
Wilson......Pittsburg


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[RCMcKenzie]

Ted, and any other Coupon collectors that would like to chime in, I counted 44/104 T213-1 with minor to major back damage. I have upgraded over the last 40 years, so if I have a nicer example, I don't add a new dupe with back damage. In other words, the percentage of Coupon 1's with back damage may be higher than 40%.

Here are 4 tougher cards that I do not have dupes for, and would like to upgrade, plus 4 examples of Fletcher.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Ted, and any other Coupon collectors that would like to chime in, I counted 44/104 T213-1 with minor to major back damage. I have upgraded over the last 40 years, so if I have a nicer example, I don't add a new dupe with back damage. In other words, the percentage of Coupon 1's with back damage may be higher than 40%.

Rob

Your set and inventory of 1910 COUPON cards, with respect to back damage percentage, is comparable to that I have seen searching for these cards throughout the years.

And speaking about "inventory".....would you have a duplicate Elberfeld that you would be willing to sell (or trade) me ?

I am very close to completing my Elberfeld Quintuplicate run ?



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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

Hey guys,

Scratch my above request for Elberfeld.

I meant to say Engle.

I am working on the Quintuplicate run of Engle (Yankees).


TED Z

T206 Reference
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