1952 Rosen Mantle SGC 9.5 Final Price – Too high, too low, just right?

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

100% agreed. I stated on one of the various threads, that may or may not have contained a member or two losing his shit, that the 12.6 sale was great for the hobby. Also stated based on the scans that the card appeared over graded. That someone can spend that on a card is incredible and while it potentially makes it harder for me to buy stuff, it shows that the card industry, which not long ago was simply a hobby, is being taken very seriously.

It's not great for the hobby.

It's great for sellers and auction houses and holders of Ruth, Wagner & Mantle.

It's pretty awful for collectors.

They have just found out they will never get certain cards...and possibly all levels, PSA1 thru 10.

Now that being said collectors HAVE to adjust their mindset and go to Authentic, Altered, Miscut, etc. If they want these cards. It's still the same card, just a lot worse shape, kind of like your wife when you first married her.

You still love her, she just ain't Mint10 anymore, get used to it, live with it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

We will never know, but it would be fascinating to know what the sale price would have been if it had been graded a 9 (probably more accurate given the toning) and not designated as the world's greatest 311. The cynic in me says a significant amount less.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

We will never know, but it would be fascinating to know what the sale price would have been if it had been graded a 9 (probably more accurate given the toning) and not designated as the world's greatest 311. The cynic in me says a significant amount less.

With a PSA 8 going for almost 3 million quite some time ago now. I think if it had been a PSA 9 with the same provenance it may well still have done 12.6.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

With a PSA 8 going for almost 3 million quite some time ago now. I think if it had been a PSA 9 with the same provenance it may well still have done 12.6.

SGC 9 is what my hypothetical was meant to say though. Still the same?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

SGC 9 is what my hypothetical was meant to say though. Still the same?

It's an interesting philosophical debate. Would buyers pay slightly less for this card if it were in an SGC 9.0 holder instead of SGC 9.5?

My gut tells me that there is probably a difference. But I'm guessing it might not be as much as we would expect. I wouldn't be surprised if it still got to $10M+ even at SGC 9.0 instead of SGC 9.5.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

It's an interesting philosophical debate. Would buyers pay slightly less for this card if it were in an SGC 9.0 holder instead of SGC 9.5?

My gut tells me that there is probably a difference. But I'm guessing it might not be as much as we would expect. I wouldn't be surprised if it still got to $10M+ even at SGC 9.0 instead of SGC 9.5.

Maybe but at SGC 9 it probably doesn't get a flip saying it's the best one in the history of the universe. Would that matter?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe but at SGC 9 it probably doesn't get a flip saying it's the best one in the history of the universe. Would that matter?

Could be! It’s just tied for best in the universe on the SGC pop charts?

So maybe it only goes for $8M?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

It's not great for the hobby.

It's great for sellers and auction houses and holders of Ruth, Wagner & Mantle.

It's pretty awful for collectors.

They have just found out they will never get certain cards...and possibly all levels, PSA1 thru 10.

Now that being said collectors HAVE to adjust their mindset and go to Authentic, Altered, Miscut, etc. If they want these cards. It's still the same card, just a lot worse shape, kind of like your wife when you first married her.

You still love her, she just ain't Mint10 anymore, get used to it, live with it.

I understand your perspective but I do not think that every card in grades 1 - 10 will now jump up because someone spent 12.6 on an over graded 52 Mantle. The huge money that has poured in has been on elite caliber cards that guys like you and me were never going to be in the market for. Does this mean that a 54 T Snider in PSA 6.5 will be unattainable?

The market overall has already seen huge appreciation over the last 2 plus years. And like many things that go up they can go down and back up again. For most cards, prices are down sharply from where they were at the highs, yet we still have at least 2 people who did not care and slugged it out for the 9.5 Mantle. Sales of T206 Wagners have gone through the roof too. If you are referring to those cards, you are right. Most collectors are SOL. But they have been SOL well before the sale of the 52 Mantle in the 9.5.

Bottom line is that nothing stays the same. Change is inevitable. Adapt or be left behind. I have made my choice.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I understand your perspective but I do not think that every card in grades 1 - 10 will now jump up because someone spent 12.6 on an over graded 52 Mantle. The huge money that has poured in has been on elite caliber cards that guys like you and me were never going to be in the market for. Does this mean that a 54 T Snider in PSA 6.5 will be unattainable?

The market overall has already seen huge appreciation over the last 2 plus years. And like many things that go up they can go down and back up again. For most cards, prices are down sharply from where they were at the highs, yet we still have at least 2 people who did not care and slugged it out for the 9.5 Mantle. Sales of T206 Wagners have gone through the roof too. If you are referring to those cards, you are right. Most collectors are SOL. But they have been SOL well before the sale of the 52 Mantle in the 9.5.

Bottom line is that nothing stays the same. Change is inevitable. Adapt or be left behind. I have made my choice.

Chase the one I feel skewed the market and made it untouchable for a while for many was the SGC 5 52 Mantle Sale in REA last month for $306,000. That killed a lot of guys' chances for the time being for being able to obtain one in a 5 or less. I feel it’s the reason why guys are asking, and cards are selling in major auction houses the same grade and less, grades 1-5, for ridiculous numbers for grades 1-3.

To me that SGC 5 1952 Mantle was the game changer. I can’t make any sense of the price it sold for, $306,000.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Chase the one I feel skewed the market and made it untouchable for a while for many was the SGC 5 52 Mantle Sale in REA last month for $306,000. That killed a lot of guys' chances for the time being for being able to obtain one in a 5 or less. I feel it’s the reason why guys are asking, and cards are selling in major auction houses the same grade and less, grades 1-5, for ridiculous numbers for grades 1-3.

To me that SGC 5 1952 Mantle was the game changer. I can’t make any sense of the price it sold for, $306,000.

Man, in the day who knew, eh John? Even with a relatively small truck could have backed it up.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Man, in the day who knew, eh John? Even with a relatively small truck could have backed it up.

Agree, and less than 3 years ago, lol. I just can’t get the $306,000 for a SGC 5 52 Mantle.

[Eric72]

I think some people are thinking along these lines:

Anyone who can be suckered by hype and overpay for a misgraded card doesn't deserve $12.6 million in disposable hobby income.

It's a flawed mindset, of course. However, I can see more than a few people adopting it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Agree, and less than 3 years ago, lol. I just can’t get the $306,000 for a SGC 5 52 Mantle.

It's hard to get one's head around, elite centering and all.

[JustinD]

Wow, this one spun off like the comment section on an opinion piece in the editorial section.

personal opinions only and not even worth 2 cents:

• Would I have bought it if I had the money - No.
• Would I have given away all my savings instead to meet the current socialistic dream program agenda and pat myself on the back with the usual follow up Ted Talk about how awesome I am? - No.
• Would I have spent it likely on something else that someone would likely consider more wasteful like a garage with an F40, F50, and an Enzo and had maybe enough to start a decent house next to the garage? - more than likely, we all have vices.

Honestly, it was sold in a free market auction and as long as it's paid for in the end that's what it was worth that day, tomorrow it could be more or less. I have no arguments.