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#1
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Misreads a post and uses that misreading to criticize people. Responds by cussing out the person who points this out and is factually correct.
What is it about this card that makes people go crazy? It’s a unique phenomenon. |
#2
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Yeah agree it drives people crazy - like I can’t figure out why you seriously spend time to go out of your way to hate on it. It’s the most iconic post-war card. Accept that fact and move in with it and you’ll be happier. Your pop and non rc arguments against the card are a bit like yogi’s no on ever goes there anymore because it’s too crowded.
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#3
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In my opinion, the large sums of money which typically trade hands these days when the card is bought/sold.
Quite a few people here remember a time when a lower grade '52 Mantle was somewhat attainable. That ship has now sailed for many of us. Some people get on with their lives. For others, it continues to grind their gears. To me, it underscores an often valid maxim; the worst regrets we have in life revolve around things we didn't do. Yep, I should have bought that card when I had the chance. I didn't. Oh, well.
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Eric Perry Currently collecting: T206 (135/524) 1956 Topps Baseball (195/342) "You can observe a lot by just watching." - Yogi Berra |
#4
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Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions. ![]() My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ |
#5
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It is too bad that now we can now reduce fighting and unprovoked off base aggression to cards. Maybe those who keep coming unglued should take a time out and catch their collective and collector breaths. Someone's Sun was wrecked and now we got two collectors whose entire Tuesdays have been decimated due to a discussion over a baseball card. Really?
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#6
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#7
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How was your Tuesday, by the way? As good or better than your Sunday?
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#8
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I can remember Al Rosen *Mr. Mint" after his amazing 1952 High number find selling a nice 52 Mantle for $1,500 when the national was in St Louis. He probably had around 100 at the time, so has to be some other 9-10's in the bunch? The buyer told me to go get me one, but I didn't--oh well?
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#9
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It's been a lovely Tuesday. Work was undramatic, I got lunch with a friend and baseball historian, and we disagreed on some points with reasonable debate and free of any meltdowns or screeching. I pulled down my 53 Topps master set (p-vg and treasonously raw) for cataloguing the black/white text variations in my spreadsheets, and mailed out some tobacco cards to a hobby pal. I'm spending the night curled up with a warm coffee and my old friend Hesiod. While it would have been a nice bonus if others pumped the stocks I'm holding and we had an up day on the market instead of a down one, it has not ruined my day or made it worse that others are not putting their efforts into driving narratives financially beneficial to myself. I never even felt the desire to spew invective at people for saying things that are true but I wish were not true. I hope that yours also did not contain unbridled rage when confronted with people who do not share a fiscal interest you have or an inconvenient fact, sir. |
#10
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So let me get this straight Greg...at no time did you or your friend feel the urge to condemn one another for dissenting view points? No F Offs were exchanged? Surely there had to be bile in that discussion so one of you had to be thinking to tell the other to F Off, no? I am glad to hear that you did not feel compelled to push an elderly lady down a staircase because your portfolio did not appreciate today. I am guessing it was not too hard to resist. And thank you for asking. I had a great Tuesday. I was productive at work. Was able to cut out a few hours early, in fact. I would have been able to leave earlier had I not been sucked in by two grown men losing it here. Hit the gym, ran a few errands and had dinner at home with the wife, kid and dog. Caught up with each others' day and spent an hour looking at my severely off center (60/40 both ways) 1953 Bowman set to see which cards I needed to upgrade due to too much corner wear. Not once did I think to check the market, look on Zillow to see if my home went up or down in value or get upset that there has been no appreciable increase in the value of my Auth 52 Topps Mantle.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#11
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I know it sounds crazy, but there was no F off situation! I even had to stand factually corrected and abandon an argument when I misrecalled a statistic and Baseball-Reference proved me factually wrong. We even disagreed on faith as my reverent agnosticism does not align with his Catholicism. No screeching was had nor was anyone condemned to Hell. Sounds like a good day to me, but I must express some surprise at one component. You mean you, sir, own a 52 Topps Mantle but are NOT ignoring inconvenient facts, what people you might be criticizing have actually said to argue against something they did not say but is easier to attack, and abandoning all dignity and connection to reality to spew complete fiction mixed with outraged fury to serve the obvious purpose of pumping the end of the market you are invested in and this card in particular? That is possible? |
#12
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![]() Some other random musings: We often fall into the trap of binary thinking. Issues are complex. People are complex. I know people who are filthy rich but whose idea of a fine night out is a trip to In N Out for a burger and fries (hint: ask for animal fries with chopped chilis). I know people who will drop everything to help a friend but whose politics are of the "let them eat cake" variety. It isn't all one thing or all the opposite. I agree that we are really still ramping up as a transition to an alternative asset class. Look at the money not only pouring into the hobby infrastructure but also professionalizing it. We're seeing vertical integration, scaling of operations, etc. Then there are the rising marketplaces like Whatnot that are democratizing the live auction experience. I would not be surprised to see a National moving closer to the Comicon model in the next decade. It all points to a cross-over from a low-brow to a high-brow vision of collecting. The Mantle is a great example of the art-like transition of the market. You can own a work by Roy Lichtenstein on a budget, but it will be a print or serigraph, not an original canvas. Very few could piss in the tall weeds with the big dogs who chased down the 9.5, but lots of us could get into a low-grade 52 T Mantle with some savings and liquidating of existing cards. Which brings me to my next point, why people react so strongly. It is frustration. I've been there too. I was so frustrated with card prices 15 years ago that I stopped buying mainstream baseball cards and moved to regionals and Exhibits. I wish I'd spent some of that money on a midgrade Mantle when it was still a middle-class card, but I was too butt-hurt about not being able to afford every card I wanted that I just pulled a Cartman: "screw you guys, I'm going home." Seems to me being all bent out of shape over someone else's good fortune is a waste of time and only hurts you; the rich guy who bought the card doesn't care one iota that you are frustrated. Won't do anything except make you mad. It's all just stuff; what is real is how we react to it. We can control that. Like James Brown sang: "You don't miss nothing you never had but you miss so much you wish you could get, hah!"
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Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... Last edited by Exhibitman; 08-31-2022 at 12:34 PM. |
#13
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However, the “butt-hurt” and “bent out of shape” replies are people openly cheering for higher and higher prices, not these folks. We’ve had two people lose it, both clearly on this side. None of the people who have said they think spending $12,000,000 on a card is absurd have flipped out, cussed out people who were factually correct but corrected their BS, or posted dishonest accusatory rants straight up lying about what has actually been said in the transcripts here. |
#14
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__________________
( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#15
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It's great for sellers and auction houses and holders of Ruth, Wagner & Mantle. It's pretty awful for collectors. They have just found out they will never get certain cards...and possibly all levels, PSA1 thru 10. Now that being said collectors HAVE to adjust their mindset and go to Authentic, Altered, Miscut, etc. If they want these cards. It's still the same card, just a lot worse shape, kind of like your wife when you first married her. You still love her, she just ain't Mint10 anymore, get used to it, live with it. |
#16
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We will never know, but it would be fascinating to know what the sale price would have been if it had been graded a 9 (probably more accurate given the toning) and not designated as the world's greatest 311. The cynic in me says a significant amount less.
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Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions. ![]() My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ |
#17
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With a PSA 8 going for almost 3 million quite some time ago now. I think if it had been a PSA 9 with the same provenance it may well still have done 12.6.
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Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#18
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The market overall has already seen huge appreciation over the last 2 plus years. And like many things that go up they can go down and back up again. For most cards, prices are down sharply from where they were at the highs, yet we still have at least 2 people who did not care and slugged it out for the 9.5 Mantle. Sales of T206 Wagners have gone through the roof too. If you are referring to those cards, you are right. Most collectors are SOL. But they have been SOL well before the sale of the 52 Mantle in the 9.5. Bottom line is that nothing stays the same. Change is inevitable. Adapt or be left behind. I have made my choice.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#19
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To me that SGC 5 1952 Mantle was the game changer. I can’t make any sense of the price it sold for, $306,000. Last edited by Johnny630; 08-31-2022 at 06:25 PM. |
#20
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Whether it's good or not, I'd say it's probably good for the industry and bad for the hobby. Depends entirely on how one sees cards, as a relaxed hobby or an industry to generate revenues. Neither of which, personally, I find wrong or assign any moral value too. I've never been in the market for a 52 Mantle in EX or better condition so it doesn't affect me, I'm just again complete bullshit being passed off as true. Apparently this is a hot take in the hobby these days. As there is no moral value in this being about profiteering or 'true collecting' people could just be honest about their objective instead of making crap up, denying blatant facts, lying about what others have said, and acting as if Mr. Mint's marketing statements are objective reality. "I don't care if SGC has overhyped the grade and Mr. Mint was a lying scumbag, I believe this sale will help pump the top end of the market and I stand to profit from this; what's good for me is good for me and that is what matters to me" would be a reasonable take. |
#21
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I think the sale shows health in the world of cards. With any market that fluctuates, the best time to buy is not the best time to sell. When prices were more stagnant it was always a great time to buy and sell. Now it is a timing thing. Now you have pumpers who unhinge easily, investors and flippers. The hobby is no longer just dealers and collectors. There is more volatility and there is more money. Like you I am not in this area of the hobby. Doing 5 figures on a card would be a stretch for me. I still like seeing vintage cards like this one sell for obscene numbers. I am not envious or angry that I cannot play too. Happy doing what I do the way I do it.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#22
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This. Otherwise, time to find another hobby.
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