Heritage Auction problem

[deebro041]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

To defend Heritage you'd have to be:

A)On the payroll/take

B) A moron

C) In bed with the owners/employees, financially or otherwise.

D) A moron

E) A moron

F) A satisfied customer

That's just my $.02

OR....Your initials just happen to be J S !! Just kidding lol

[Leon]

Originally Posted by deebro041

OR....Your initials just happen to be J S !! Just kidding lol

Unfortunately the person stating this, and you are agreeing with, is an admitted liar and shill bidder. So agreeing with him is maybe not as highly thought of as it was. I have spoken with a few long time board members about Heritage in the last several days. They have also stated as I believe, Heritage is an honest company that has/had some operational issues. They also should consider changing the messenger on our board. Another messenger might be more widely accepted. Each and every time I have spoken with Chris Ivy about the banning of board members from their auctions I have concluded his reasoning was sound. They have never banned anyone for only questioning an item. They will ban folks that go overboard which many of our members do. Time and time again I might add. It's all in the delivery. I can't say I blame them either. As far as saying Richard is in cahoots with an alleged forger, criminal, wanted person and allegedly the biggest crook ever in the hobby, Peter Nash, well, if information is being supplied to him then I don't know what you would call it? Maybe someone can help out here. What do you call a person that gives information to allegedly the biggest fraudster in the sports memorabilia business? I am just asking a question not making any accusations.

I want to add that I think, and have always thought, Richard is a very honest person. I am merely asking a legitimate, devils advocate question above.

[David Atkatz]

The biggest fraudster in the sports memorabilia business, without a doubt, was Barry Halper.

No one even comes close. No one ever will.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

The biggest fraudster in the sports memorabilia business, without a doubt, was Barry Halper.

No one even comes close. No one ever will.

There is a difference between "is" and "was".

[slidekellyslide]

Halper would buy up anything and everything and probably ate up the story that went along with it...is there any proof that the stolen items in his collection were stolen by him or at his behest? Was he duped into buying fake jerseys, misidentified photos or forged autos? Halper strikes me as a rich dude that was easily fooled and made up stories to go along with the items in his collection.

The Cooperstown forger is in another league.

[David Atkatz]

"Making up stories" when you sell an item is also known as fraud.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

"Making up stories" when you sell an item is also known as fraud.

Yeah, no doubt, but did Halper know his items were fraudulent? Did someone sell him the Jackson Jersey and Halper made up the story about how he got it still believing the jersey to be legit? I think he got stuff from Al Stump who we now know was forging Ty Cobb items...did Halper know that? There was a lot of bad stuff in his collection, but I think at the time he sold it we can't be sure that he knew it was bad. Did he know that items he was buying were stolen from the Hall of Fame or the NYPL?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Leon

Unfortunately the person stating this, and you are agreeing with, is an admitted liar and shill bidder. So agreeing with him is maybe not as highly thought of as it was. I have spoken with a few long time board members about Heritage in the last several days. They have also stated as I believe, Heritage is an honest company that has/had some operational issues. They also should consider changing the messenger on our board. Another messenger might be more widely accepted. Each and every time I have spoken with Chris Ivy about the banning of board members from their auctions I have concluded his reasoning was sound. They have never banned anyone for only questioning an item. They will ban folks that go overboard which many of our members do. Time and time again I might add. It's all in the delivery. I can't say I blame them either. As far as saying Richard is in cahoots with an alleged forger, criminal, wanted person and allegedly the biggest crook ever in the hobby, Peter Nash, well, if information is being supplied to him then I don't know what you would call it? Maybe someone can help out here. What do you call a person that gives information to allegedly the biggest fraudster in the sports memorabilia business? I am just asking a question not making any accusations.

I want to add that I think, and have always thought, Richard is a very honest person. I am merely asking a legitimate, devils advocate question above.

Leon - What do you call someone who is pointing out some of the biggest problems in the hobby? If he is going to do that and in that process expose questionable practices and if he asks me for my opinion about certain things (as he has asked Ron Kerujian and a number of others on this board) then I am going to give him my opinion. If he asks me a question and wants to quote me in his blog, well Michael O Keefe has done that too. Does Heritage think he might be the Cooperstown Forger.
Many members have been happy to start new threads here linking to Hauls of Shame website. Many members apparently believe his allegations. Many members have had problems with Heritage. The number of members complaining about Heritage far exceeds the number who praise them.
Regardless of possible illegal allegations against Peter Nash, none proven at this time, I will respond to questions from him until he is accused of some criminal action. If you want to call that working in conjunction then go ahead and do it but only Heritage has accused me of doing that and I truly don't believe members here would accuse me of doing that just because I give him an opinion on an autograph and give him permission to quote me on Hauls of Shame.
I see all these complaints about Heritage posted here on Net54 and sort of just go ???. I deal with Lelands, Alexander Autograph Auctions, RR Autograph Auctions and Henry Yee. I have never had to make a complaint against any of them, either as a buyer or as a seller. I have never had an untoward incident, either as a buyer or as a seller. They are the cream of the crop and as to getting barred by Heritage, well my barrel of tears has already been disposed of.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Leon - What do you call someone who is pointing out some of the biggest problems in the hobby? If he is going to do that and in that process expose questionable practices and if he asks me for my opinion about certain things (as he has asked Ron Kerujian and a number of others on this board) then I am going to give him my opinion. If he asks me a question and wants to quote me in his blog, well Michael O Keefe has done that too. Does Heritage think he might be the Cooperstown Forger.
Many members have been happy to start new threads here linking to Hauls of Shame website. Many members apparently believe his allegations. Many members have had problems with Heritage. The number of members complaining about Heritage far exceeds the number who praise them.
Regardless of possible illegal allegations against Peter Nash, none proven at this time, I will respond to questions from him until he is accused of some criminal action. If you want to call that working in conjunction then go ahead and do it but only Heritage has accused me of doing that and I truly don't believe members here would accuse me of doing that just because I give him an opinion on an autograph and give him permission to quote me on Hauls of Shame.
I see all these complaints about Heritage posted here on Net54 and sort of just go ???. I deal with Lelands, Alexander Autograph Auctions, RR Autograph Auctions and Henry Yee. I have never had to make a complaint against any of them, either as a buyer or as a seller. I have never had an untoward incident, either as a buyer or as a seller. They are the cream of the crop and as to getting barred by Heritage, well my barrel of tears has already been disposed of.

Maybe you need to listen to the audio tape court hearing of Peter Nash's that I have? The judge totally ridiculed and reprimanded him. He then denied his motion and granted every single one of the plaintiff's motions against him. Maybe you need to read this too....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ash/index.html

Now, all that being said....maybe Nash is trying to out fraud in the hobby and, in and of itself, that is a good thing. But when he is allegedly the biggest fraudster (and in that article I believe he admitted to it more than once) then maybe you need to rethink who you help. Totally your call.....and I do appreciate anyone that helps to rid the hobby of fraud. But I think I will help folks who aren't admitted hobby fraudsters. That's just me though....

[travrosty]

why say maybe and allegedly? if it's not proven then you can't fault someone with an association with someone who hasn't had anything proven against them, and if it IS proven, then don't say maybe he is trying to do this and that he is allegedly that. This is about getting banned from heritage for allegedly. just think of the employees of Heritage and their allegedly. is it fair both ways or not?

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Leon

Totally your call.....and I do appreciate anyone that helps to rid the hobby of fraud. But I think I will help folks who aren't admitted hobby fraudsters. That's just me though....

How about Shelly?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

How about Shelly?

Going back to the "is" and "was". Shelly has admitted his mistakes and paid the price. I have no issue with Shelly whatsoever.

BTW, I will be GONE for the next 3 hours or so.....so I am not ignoring comments I am just leaving for a while....back later.....

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Leon

Going back to the "is" and "was". Shelly has admitted his mistakes and paid the price. I have no issue with Shelly whatsoever.

BTW, I will be GONE for the next 3 hours or so.....so I am not ignoring comments I am just leaving for a while....back later.....

But I thought you just said that Peter admitted his mistakes in court. And Peter has done far more for this hobby--and has the knowledge to continue doing so--than Shelly ever has. Shelly is nothing more than an "expert"in his own transgressions--he can recognize Marino forgeries (who can't, though?) and nothing else.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Leon

Going back to the "is" and "was". Shelly has admitted his mistakes and paid the price. I have no issue with Shelly whatsoever.

....

+1
At least we can agree on this.

[slidekellyslide]

If Peter Nash is going to go down then a lot of people are going to go down with him, and I think that's the only reason his website exists. It's hard not to want to get involved in helping bring the bad guys down, even if that means supplying information to the bad guy. Look at the comments on his site and you'll see some pretty famous people (Within the baseball historian/author world) helping him out. Dave Grob wrote an entire article that showed up on his website and his reputation in the hobby is GOLD. Whatever Nash's motivation for rooting out the bad (while obviously ignoring his own participation) I don't fault anyone for trying to help uncover fraud.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Leon

Maybe you need to listen to the audio tape court hearing of Peter Nash's that I have? The judge totally ridiculed and reprimanded him. He then denied his motion and granted every single one of the plaintiff's motions against him. Maybe you need to read this too....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ash/index.html

Now, all that being said....maybe Nash is trying to out fraud in the hobby and, in and of itself, that is a good thing. But when he is allegedly the biggest fraudster (and in that article I believe he admitted to it more than once) then maybe you need to rethink who you help. Totally your call.....and I do appreciate anyone that helps to rid the hobby of fraud. But I think I will help folks who aren't admitted hobby fraudsters. That's just me though....

Leon - Maybe my focus is narrow but I look at the work he is doing now and also, as you, think it is a good thing. If someone wants to do that type of work now, and wants a quote from me or would like my opinion about the authenticity of an autograph, then I will give him the quote and look at the autograph.
This is not excusing things in his past but unless evidence becomes available to the public proving him to be the Cooperstown Forger then nobody can really say that he is the Cooperstown Forger.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Leon

Maybe you need to listen to the audio tape court hearing of Peter Nash's that I have? The judge totally ridiculed and reprimanded him. He then denied his motion and granted every single one of the plaintiff's motions against him. Maybe you need to read this too....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ash/index.html

Now, all that being said....maybe Nash is trying to out fraud in the hobby and, in and of itself, that is a good thing. But when he is allegedly the biggest fraudster (and in that article I believe he admitted to it more than once) then maybe you need to rethink who you help. Totally your call.....and I do appreciate anyone that helps to rid the hobby of fraud. But I think I will help folks who aren't admitted hobby fraudsters. That's just me though....

You will help folks who aren't admitted hobby fraudsters.


Did the photographs sprout legs and walk out of the NYPL or did someone get caught and admit to it to SI? Glad their banner ad is not allowed here lest we say one thing and do another.

Not accusing anyone of anything, just asking a question, playing devil's advocate.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

You will help folks who aren't admitted hobby fraudsters.


Did the photographs sprout legs and walk out of the NYPL or did someone get caught and admit to it to SI? Glad their banner ad is not allowed here lest we say one thing and do another.

Not accusing anyone of anything, just asking a question, playing devil's advocate.

Travis- Your analogies are so off based I am not even going to respond to you anymore. You really should find a hobby where you get enjoyment. Be happy my friend. Have a good day and happy collecting.

[murphusa]

from SI

"The hobby is mostly filled with low-life hucksters"

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Leon

Unfortunately the person stating this, and you are agreeing with, is an admitted liar and shill bidder. So agreeing with him is maybe not as highly thought of as it was. I have spoken with a few long time board members about Heritage in the last several days. They have also stated as I believe, Heritage is an honest company that has/had some operational issues. They also should consider changing the messenger on our board. Another messenger might be more widely accepted. Each and every time I have spoken with Chris Ivy about the banning of board members from their auctions I have concluded his reasoning was sound. They have never banned anyone for only questioning an item. They will ban folks that go overboard which many of our members do. Time and time again I might add. It's all in the delivery. I can't say I blame them either. As far as saying Richard is in cahoots with an alleged forger, criminal, wanted person and allegedly the biggest crook ever in the hobby, Peter Nash, well, if information is being supplied to him then I don't know what you would call it? Maybe someone can help out here. What do you call a person that gives information to allegedly the biggest fraudster in the sports memorabilia business? I am just asking a question not making any accusations.

I want to add that I think, and have always thought, Richard is a very honest person. I am merely asking a legitimate, devils advocate question above.

Here we go with the "allegedly" again. Proof should be needed before banning someone from Heritage based on an allegation.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

Here we go with the "allegedly" again. Proof should be needed before banning someone from Heritage based on an allegation.

As soon as you own an auction house you can make the rules. Until then you can continue to do whatever else you want to. And as for me saying "allegedly" it is because I don't have first hand knowledge. However, here is a line cut and pasted from the story I posted from SI...

"The court found in favor of Lifson, and eventually Nash signed a court order in which he admitted to having committed fraud, without specifying how"


So again, with that quote, how is Richard not working with a fraudster?