Catch 22 of card grading - is it worth the gamble?

[parkplace33]

Before my post, I do have some graded cards and don’t begrudge collectors who grade cards. I just want to give a recent observation on grading cards and the process of grading.

At a recent card show, I met a dealer who had a large assortment of graded cards for sale. During conversations, the dealer said recently received a 500 vintage card submission back from a grading company. He said 250 of the cards were in his showcase. I asked where were the other 250 cards? He said at home because he was in a catch 22 in regards to the cards.

He believed the 250 card lot at home were either undergraded or came back as altered. He said he knew the cards were not altered. He believed he had two options.

1. Sell the slabbed (and unslabbed) as is and take a perceived loss because of the current grades.
2. Resubmit the cards back to either the first grading company or another grading company and hope for higher grades.

He said he would have think about what he would do. I wished him the best.

The conversation struck a chord with me. I couldn’t imagine trying to regrade these 250 cards, but is that commonplace? Is the first thought “if I don’t get the grade I want, I will resubmit”? To me, that is too big a gamble to take, especially with grading cost and turnaround times.

[hcv123]

I think it used to be much more commonplace. With the combination of the grading standard bar having been raised and the huge increased cost of grading - I suspect it will be happening a lot less - case in point - I am sure you would not have heard about it if they were on their way back already!

That said, I also relate to the conundrum (though I don't think I have ever sent in 250 cards in a single submission) - I just got back a 1971 Clemente that in my opinion is an "8" all day long - The grader gave it a 7. An 8 is a $2K+ card. A 7 is an ~$800 card. The card is clearly nicer than all but a couple of recently graded 7's (even nicer than a lot of 8's!). I have in the mean time decided to offer the card at $1250 - a premium over a "7" but a discount to an "8" rather than play the grading game and sending it back.

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I think it used to be much more commonplace. With the combination of the grading standard bar having been raised and the huge increased cost of grading - I suspect it will be happening a lot less - case in point - I am sure you would not have heard about it if they were on their way back already!

That said, I also relate to the conundrum (though I don't think I have ever sent in 250 cards in a single submission) - I just got back a 1971 Clemente that in my opinion is an "8" all day long - The grader gave it a 7. An 8 is a $2K+ card. A 7 is an ~$800 card. The card is clearly nicer than all but a couple of recently graded 7's (even nicer than a lot of 8's!). I have in the mean time decided to offer the card at $1250 - a premium over a "7" but a discount to an "8" rather than play the grading game and sending it back.

I do the same thing: if the card has nice eye appeal, price it for the card and not the grade. I don't see any other option with some of the cards that are overly strictly graded. Personally, I won't pay for a second grading.

[ocjack]

Originally Posted by Dead-Ball-Hitter

I do the same thing: if the card has nice eye appeal, price it for the card and not the grade. I don't see any other option with some of the cards that are overly strictly graded. Personally, I won't pay for a second grading.

So, my question is: If you believe the card should be an "8" which is going for $2K+ and it received a "7", why not just offer it at an "8" price and let the market determine its value? As everyone says, the grade is arbitrary for the most part. I assume there are plenty of people who look for those "7's" at a "7" price because they think they can get it re-graded to an "8" because they may be a heavy hitter and might receive the benefit of the doubt on their submissions. I don't mind leaving money on the table for others to be able to make something, but I also don't like being taken advantage of.

I assume I'm missing something.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I think it used to be much more commonplace. With the combination of the grading standard bar having been raised and the huge increased cost of grading - I suspect it will be happening a lot less - case in point - I am sure you would not have heard about it if they were on their way back already!

That said, I also relate to the conundrum (though I don't think I have ever sent in 250 cards in a single submission) - I just got back a 1971 Clemente that in my opinion is an "8" all day long - The grader gave it a 7. An 8 is a $2K+ card. A 7 is an ~$800 card. The card is clearly nicer than all but a couple of recently graded 7's (even nicer than a lot of 8's!). I have in the mean time decided to offer the card at $1250 - a premium over a "7" but a discount to an "8" rather than play the grading game and sending it back.

And the sad part is, it will more than likely just sit and shit. Too many people are married to the label.

[Snowman]

If this dealer sent in 500 cards and thought 250 of them were undergraded, then he almost certainly doesn't know what he's doing or looking at.

However, you can occasionally get screwed on a submission. I've sent in 100 card lots to PSA of modern cards and had ~90 come back as PSA 10s, then sent in another 100 card lot from the same exact same case using my same standards only to receive ~30 PSA 10s on the next submission. Different graders on different days have different standards. Especially when it comes to grading 9s vs 10s on modern cards. For these reasons, I never send in huge submissions all at once. I don't want the same grader for every card. You could get really screwed if you get a bad grader on a bad day. Then you've wasted your entire submission. It's better to break them up into smaller lots and send them in.

If you are experienced at grading though, and have a good eye for detail, you can definitely have good success cracking cards out and sending them back in. I've cracked out countless cards that I believe were under graded over the years and sent them back in. Almost every single time, they've gotten a bump in grade. Recently, I had a 59 Topps Mickey Mantle I sent in to SGC. It should be a 5, but it came back as a 3. I just rolled my eyes and laughed, cracked it out and sent it in to CSG. They gave it a 6.5. lol

[conor912]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I have in the mean time decided to offer the card at $1250 - a premium over a "7" but a discount to an "8" rather than play the grading game and sending it back.

As a collector, I am totally cool with that. I had my eye on a 7 of a particular card for a while, most of which were going for ~$1700. I recently found a wildly harshly graded 5 that could pass for a strong 6 if not a 7 all day long for $850. Average 5's sell for ~$500, but I was thrilled to pay a 70% "premium" to get what I considered to be a 50% discount from what I was expecting to pay.

[Lorewalker]

From what I am seeing and hearing, the scenario of that dealer seems to be more common, these days. The avg submitter seems to be taking the brunt of the more strict grading. For some/most/all of the larger auction houses who submit their consignors' material, they do not seem to be getting assessed as harshly. Gee I wonder why?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

If he got half of a large submission back as altered or, in his opinion, undergraded,there's something wrong with his vetting process.

[Casey2296]

Sounds like SGC, their graders are on a "trimmed", "altered" kick right now when it comes to pre-war.

[Johnny630]

I’m going to preface that i myself really like sending cards in for grading only within certain limits expectations, kinda pick and choose your best cards with the most upside potential. I never crack cards without knowing the history, where it come from raw, whom it was graded by ect. I’ll only usually do this on cards I had raw first.

That being said I have noticed it seems like far to many feel the need to just grade And hope for the best. It’s like a gambler who had some luck grading in the past, maybe scored on a couple cards.
Now they think they’re good and can one up the house so then send in. When cards come back much harsher graded then expected they have an issue of wether to cut their losses or double down. Many double down and repeat the same cycle, it’s a gamble, could it work or could it be danger zone, idk but check some peoples credit card bills who are pissed when they get charged and aren’t getting the graded they perceived. If you have conviction in your card sure keep trying but to arbitrarily keep sending back in is risky business.

[BobC]

Has anyone heard of an instance where someone who paid for grading with a credit card took exception to the grades they got, and filed a claim with their credit card company because they felt they were cheated and not given the proper service they paid for?

I myself do not send cards in to be graded. (Only submitted items once to prove authenticity.) But I hear and understand that TPGs normally won't tell submitters exactly what they found/feel is wrong with a card when grading it, and also claim to not keep notes or records to really back up their opinions either. So, if someone felt they really got screwed by a TPG, could they get away with taking them to task and claiming they did not accurately grade their cards and, therefore, successfully file a claim for refund with their CC company? Since the TPGs claim to keep no notes or records, what would they have to show to a CC company to prove they actually did what they claimed and got paid for, to examine and ACCURATELY grade and encapsulate someone's cards.

Would be interesting to hear the outcome if someone's ever tried doing that.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If he got half of a large submission back as altered or, in his opinion, undergraded,there's something wrong with his vetting process.

+1

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

From what I am seeing and hearing, the scenario of that dealer seems to be more common, these days. The avg submitter seems to be taking the brunt of the more strict grading. For some/most/all of the larger auction houses who submit their consignors' material, they do not seem to be getting assessed as harshly. Gee I wonder why?

Bs. Most of the larger submitters are making the exact same claims as the smaller guys. I love the internet every wakadoidle conspiracy theory is given as much credence as scientific fact.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Bs. Most of the larger submitters are making the exact same claims as the smaller guys. I love the internet every wakadoidle conspiracy theory is given as much credence as scientific fact.

Every...Single.....Time....You....Are ...Negative. You should get some counseling.
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