Grading Technical vs. Overall Appeal

[Delray Vintage]

I have noticed that prices for lower grade but better eye appeal are getting higher. In fact a better centered card sometimes out prices a card graded two grades higher. Does card grading need to change and give more weight to overall appearance? The idea of giving a numerical grade was to make it easy to compare cards and establish price points. In fact, this is not the reality. Would a badly centered but technically not OC be more desirable than a perfectly centered card graded lower because of a corner being slightly less sharp? If grading is supposed to equalize card assessments and value, something is off in the grading world.

Overall eye appeal should be part of the grade. I know that sometimes makes grading more subjective. But we all view cards with our visual senses and not whether a corner is 90% sharp versus 85% sharp.

[Belfast1933]

You bring up some good points, on both sides of the issue

As a collector back into the hobby in the last 2-3 years, the best advice I got as I discovered that grading was such a “thing” was to buy the card, not the grade

That advice has really served me well - in a way, the grading technicalities vs the eye appeal as a collector had provided me with pretty good bargains over the last 3 years -

[notfast]

Originally Posted by Delray Vintage

I have noticed that prices for lower grade but better eye appeal are getting higher. In fact a better centered card sometimes out prices a card graded two grades higher. Does card grading need to change and give more weight to overall appearance? The idea of giving a numerical grade was to make it easy to compare cards and establish price points. In fact, this is not the reality. Would a badly centered but technically not OC be more desirable than a perfectly centered card graded lower because of a corner being slightly less sharp? If grading is supposed to equalize card assessments and value, something is off in the grading world.

Overall eye appeal should be part of the grade. I know that sometimes makes grading more subjective. But we all view cards with our visual senses and not whether a corner is 90% sharp versus 85% sharp.

This entire post basically shows why vintage can be collected differently by everyone.

I love the fact that I can look at a PSA 2 t206 and think it’s amazing because its centered with good registration even though it’s got a corner rounded off. The next guy might think the card is trash because of that corner and go for a sharper PSA 4 that is OC...something I wouldn’t look at twice.

That’s the beauty of vintage IMO.

I have noticed SERIOUS price differences in 48 Leaf Jackie Robinson and 52 Mantle’s solely based on centering. I’m on board with it to be honest as centering is huge for me.

[Delray Vintage]

That seems to be a problem in the grading world. If grades were supposed to make cards a tradeable commodity then that has failed as a goal. You are right that with Mantle centering trumps corners by a lot. Grades seem to be correlated to price in most cases but less so with iconic cards where appearance is more important than sharpness of corners.

[Casey2296]

I have centering OCD so I will always buy centering over grade. To my eyes a card has to have balance, registration, color, and honest edges. At this point "sharp" corners and thin borders on a pre-war card in a PSA holder is a red flag for me.

[conor912]

I agree that you have some great points, as I have always collected eye appeal over technical grade. That said, i think grading companies have enough problems with subjectivity as it is. Letting them weight a grade for eye appeal sounds like a logistical nightmare.

[MattyC]

PSA has long given the most weight to corners, and not nearly enough respect to image focus or centering. Perhaps because their biggest submitters can most easily sharpen a corner

But Delrey you nail it and preach on— the collector’s eyes are what matter most and guys should always buy what is the prettiest card to them, not what some “professional grader” who knows less about cards says is best.

[Delray Vintage]

I know PWCC has attempted to add eye appeal in its ratings. The fact that PSA and SGC are leaving eye appeal ratings to auction houses is a problem. There needs to be a better way to grade cards. Let’s take the example of Old Judge where many were pasted in albums. The card could be sharp with deep photographic quality. Any slight missing paper on the blank back makes it a 1. A faded card with great corners and clean back can get a 7. How is this system helping collectors and buyers? There needs a reevaluation of what makes a card grade. Basically we need grading companies to prevent fakes and alterations. But we also want some objective way to equate cards so the same grade means the same quality and value.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Delray Vintage

I have noticed that prices for lower grade but better eye appeal are getting higher. In fact a better centered card sometimes out prices a card graded two grades higher. Does card grading need to change and give more weight to overall appearance? The idea of giving a numerical grade was to make it easy to compare cards and establish price points. In fact, this is not the reality. Would a badly centered but technically not OC be more desirable than a perfectly centered card graded lower because of a corner being slightly less sharp? If grading is supposed to equalize card assessments and value, something is off in the grading world.

Overall eye appeal should be part of the grade. I know that sometimes makes grading more subjective. But we all view cards with our visual senses and not whether a corner is 90% sharp versus 85% sharp.

What adds another wrinkle is that major inconsistencies exist over time with TPG's as yesterday's 7's are today's 5's etc. Combined with older graded cards getting re-holdered in new slabs, it's become even more important as a collector to scrutinize the card before the grade.

[Gorditadogg]

Some cards come out of the pack better than others. As a kid trading cards in the 60s we knew how hard it was to find a centered and focused card of your favorite star. Those cards were premiums to us then, they were like insert cards- you only got one every 3 or 4 packs.

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[conor912]

I always wanted a TPG that would just authenticate, check for altering, and slab only....no grade - you wouldn’t even need a flip. I can assess my own grade just fine. One of the main reasons I collect raw is that tue flip is so damn distracting to my eye.

[packs]

I'm generally in line with the TPG standard system but the one area I think grading is useless is when it comes to Old Judge cards. This particular issue isn't like the others. When it comes to OJs it's the image that's typically the most important attribute. I don't find standard grading useful.

[Directly]

I purchased this card for its appeal versus the low grade---

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by conor912

I always wanted a TPG that would just authenticate, check for altering, and slab only....no grade - you wouldn’t even need a flip. I can assess my own grade just fine. One of the main reasons I collect raw is that tue flip is so damn distracting to my eye.

I wish this was how it was done. Imagine if the whole market was left up to the collector's eye to decide. Sticker collectors and Registry cats would probably lose their minds LOL.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I wish this was how it was done. Imagine if the whole market was left up to the collector's eye to decide. Sticker collectors and Registry cats would probably lose their minds LOL.

Amen... This would be utopia. The owner of the card should have the say.

I cannot believe it's evolved (or devolved, depending on your perspective) to what we have now. They can't even detect obvious alteration, continue to take submissions from well known card doctors, put numerically graded "maraca" cards in holders that don't come close to fitting... And they are telling us what are cards should grade?

No thanks!

[MattyC]

The only good news is we buyers are in effect overriding the graders more and more frequently at market; for example, a 3 of the 52 Mantle sold for the same as a 4 at Heritage last auction. And an exceptional 3 now at Heritage is already busting out into pricing territory usually reserved for higher technical grades. The final opinions that matter are rendered by us with our eyes and wallets.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by conor912

I always wanted a TPG that would just authenticate, check for altering, and slab only....no grade - you wouldn’t even need a flip. I can assess my own grade just fine. One of the main reasons I collect raw is that tue flip is so damn distracting to my eye.

Your eyes are better than mine probably. I can't tell whether a card has corner wear or minor surface issues without a loupe.

I like the concept of expert grading. I also like subgrades so I can get details on the review. The more feedback the better.

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