Issues with BBC exchange

[maximus35]

Do you guys trust BBC exchange to buy sealed boxes from? How do you know they are not rewrapping wax packs? I've had issues 3x now. The first 2x I purchased sealed boxes certified by bbcexchange off members on eBay. Some packs were not even sealed and the good cards I got were all damaged.

For example I got 83opc baseball off eBay. The ryne sandberg had a small crease and the tony Gwynn had gum stuck to the back that seemed glued on.

Another box I bought off eBay was 89 upper deck. I pulled 2 Griffeys but again one had small crease and another had 3 dinged corners. I sent off to PSA and 1 got a 4 and the other a 7....kinda strange for pack fresh cards.

So I decided to go direct from BBC exchange website buying 82 topps football. The same thing happened again. The packs seemed like they were sealed with glue because there was glue over the top card in every pack and the packs were sealed tight as if they were glued.

Again, every good card I pulled had issues. Lawrence Taylor Had gum and glue all over it, Ronnie Lott had terrible dinged corners and Anthony Munoz had slight crease. How do pack fresh cards have creases?? Some packs weren't sealed all the way and one looked like it was sealed by a 2yr old. I refuse to buy anything else from these guys.

I was seeing if you guys had similar experiences???

[Leon]

Hi there
I don't have an answer but per our rules, highlighted at the top of every page. you are Mark N.ess

thanks
mgmt...

[Econteachert205]

I bought two boxes of 78 topps football from them in the late 90s and managed to not pull a Dorsett or Payton. Swore them off for life.

[botn]

I have known Steve Hart from Baseball Card Exchange for a very long time and I have only found him to be nothing but honest and accurate in all of his business dealings. In fact Mark's post above is the first time I have heard anyone say anything negative about Steve.

Cards coming out of unopened packs with dinged corners is a given. The older the issue the better chance that is what is going to happen and says nothing about the assessment Steve does to provide an opinion on the authenticity or originality of a pack. A flimsy box and wax wrapper are the only thing protecting a sharp corner. Over time, corners lose that battle.

If Mark wants pristine rookies from these issues it would be better for him to seek those in SGC or PSA holders in the grade he wants. Without seeing the packs that he opened I cannot speak to glue however I highly doubt Steve would miss glue on a pack and stake his reputation on something so obvious. And as for wax or gum on cards, that is expected if those cards were closest to the seal or where the gum is placed in the pack.

It is rarely financially viable to buy an unopened box or pack with the intent of opening it. The value in unopened is leaving them that way.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

I bought two boxes of 78 topps football from them in the late 90s and managed to not pull a Dorsett or Payton. Swore them off for life.

528 cards in the set. How many in a box, 360? I would bet there is nothing unusual statistically about what happened to you.

About the last person in this hobby I would suspect of untoward dealings is Steve Hart. If he's bad, might as well give up.

[Econteachert205]

Yeah, no. 36 packs, 14 cards per pack. 504 cards times 2. 1008 cards total. No Terry Bradshaw either.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

528 cards in the set. How many in a box, 360? I would bet there is nothing unusual statistically about what happened to you.

About the last person in this hobby I would suspect of untoward dealings is Steve Hart. If he's bad, might as well give up.

[Republicaninmass]

Awfully tough to reseal 89 UD packs

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...pened-wax-box/

This says 360, but in any event, what's your theory, that Steve opened every pack to look for third year Paytons and Dorsett rookies and 8th year Bradshaws, pulled them, and then resealed them all?

[Econteachert205]

http://www.psacard.com/articles/arti...king-down-tony


This says 14 per pack and that's what I remember. My theory is they got bad boxes from a source, didn't notice it and sold them. I was just responding to the op asking if anyone else was ever unhappy with a deal they got. Many of the wax seals were loose and the card sequence was crazy weird even for late 70s topps. I only remember because I had them until recently kept in order from the original purchase. It's just my one experience.

Btw no second year largent either.

[Peter_Spaeth]

How many Fred Deans?

[Econteachert205]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How many Fred Deans?

Don't remember but I got like 6 stallworths which in the late 90s did not have much value but later became valuable. I got them for Christmas when I was 17.


Like I said, I never thought they sold bad stuff knowingly, but that they got bad stuff and without knowing passed in on... this was 19 years ago.

[aconte]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Awfully tough to reseal 89 UD packs

I was thinking the same thing. I remember opening 1989 Upper Deck and
had some messed up cards from time to time with dings or even a crease
here and there. I even got the same player sometimes back to back or
in the same pack. Not sure how or why you would reseal a foil pack.

[bnorth]

I have never bought from them but we had a former member that got a ton of resealed stuff past Steve. He even bragged about how easy it was.

[bigfish]

No issues with bbexchange. I think Steve Hart is one of the few honest folks in the buisness...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have never bought from them but we had a former member that got a ton of resealed stuff past Steve. He even bragged about how easy it was.

I think it's a bit unfair to Steve to post an anonymous claim like that, personally.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think it's a bit unfair to Steve to post an anonymous claim like that, personally.

What part is anonymous? Don't you remember the guy I am referring to? Leon banned him after he was outed for selling resealed star player packs he was getting past Steve. He bragged about how easy it was before Leon banned him.

EDIT: The former member that was resealing packs and getting them past Steve was Jose Vazquez, his ID was Pepis. Before he was caught reselling sealed packs he was a great help on this forum showing how to spot resealed packs by several different methods. He also pointed out many resealed packs in PSA slabs. It was too bad he turned out to be one of the bad guys because he was an amazing resource for information.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

What part is anonymous? Don't you remember the guy I am referring to? Leon banned him after he was outed for selling resealed star player packs he was getting past Steve. He bragged about how easy it was before Leon banned him.

Ben, can you post a link, or just say who it was, I really don't recall that.

[vintagetoppsguy]

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=162027

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ben, can you post a link, or just say who it was, I really don't recall that.

I edited my post to add the info but see David posted a link.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=162027

Post #190 shows it is not the first time Steve has been called out for selling resealed stuff.

David I just can't get used to your new avatar.

[vintagetoppsguy]

People can draw their own conclusions about BBCE. I will say this though. If one person can get resealed stuff past Steve (multiple times), why couldn't others?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

What part is anonymous? Don't you remember the guy I am referring to? Leon banned him after he was outed for selling resealed star player packs he was getting past Steve. He bragged about how easy it was before Leon banned him.

EDIT: The former member that was resealing packs and getting them past Steve was Jose Vazquez, his ID was Pepis. Before he was caught reselling sealed packs he was a great help on this forum showing how to spot resealed packs by several different methods. He also pointed out many resealed packs in PSA slabs. It was too bad he turned out to be one of the bad guys because he was an amazing resource for information.

Pepis does not show as banned.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Pepis does not show as banned.

Wutup, Jose?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Pepis does not show as banned.

Neither does a lot of other banned members.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Pepis does not show as banned.

He does now and not all members who are banned show as banned. If there is already something in their user title area it doesn't show. He has been banned since it was seen he couldn't be trusted.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Was it ever determined that Jose sold his fake packs? If so, shame on him. If not, I don't really see where he did anything wrong.

I work for one of the largest oil and gas engineering companies in the world. My current project is the expansion of an oil production platform in the Gulf of Mexico. Our client is BP. Next week, my project will have a quality audit, the focus of which will be on me and my department. Anybody else ever have an audit at their job?

If Jose didn't sell any of his creations, then as far as I'm concerned it was a quality audit for Steve. Steve failed...over and over. Period, end of story.

But, again, if he did sell his pack creations, shame on him and thanks to Leon for giving him the boot.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Was it ever determined that Jose sold his fake packs? If so, shame on him. If not, I don't really see where he did anything wrong.

I work for one of the largest oil and gas engineering companies in the world. My current project is the expansion of an oil production platform in the Gulf of Mexico. Our client is BP. Next week, my project will have a quality audit, the focus of which will be on me and my department. Anybody else ever have an audit at their job?

If Jose didn't sell any of his creations, then as far as I'm concerned it was a quality audit for Steve. Steve failed...over and over. Period, end of story.

But, again, if he did sell his pack creations, shame on him and thanks to Leon for giving him the boot.

Unfortunately Jose was selling his fake packs. He was caught on here doing it. If you click on his name and search his posts he even admitted to it. Cant remember the card that got him caught but I remember I stuck up for him at first.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

He does now and not all members who are banned show as banned. If there is already something in their user title area it doesn't show. He has been banned since it was seen he couldn't be trusted.

A select group to be sure.

[maximus35]

Just for the record I AM IN NO WAY ACCUSING STEVE HART OF RESEALING PACKS. My concern was about getting what I truly believe were reselled packs authenticated by BBC exchange off members of ebay. I decided to buy direct from BBC exchange and experienced the same problem. I know for a fact the 89 upper deck and 83 OPC were resealed that I got off ebay. The 1982 topps football cards I got direct from BBC exchange were suspicious. I have not opened 82 topps fb packs since I was a kid. I cannot remember if there were glue on the top of every card in the pack but I find it strange every single card had glue on the top. I can scan pics for proof if some of you are skeptical. I find it odd that every single "good" card I pulled from all 3 boxes had issues (small creases, gum stuck to the back, glue on the front, and dinged corners). I can see past the dinged corners, but what explains the glue on top of every card and few cards having creases? Ive never gotten any creases in any of the commons…..just the good cards. Also, whats the explanation as to why some of the packs (about 2 per box) were not fully sealed and/or sealed like a 3yr old sealed them….unlike the other packs.

I am not saying steve reselled the boxes, but is it possible that whomever he bough them from was able to pull as fast one on him if he did not sit and examine every single pack which I doubt he had time to do.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Wax boxes are easy to manipulate. The wax you bought was probably good stuff (not resealed), but it was searched. Let me explain. Let's say you have 10 wax boxes of 1982 Topps Baseball. You open a box and 7 packs into it you pull a Ripken. You put the other 29 packs aside and move on to the second box. 19 packs into it, you pull a Ripken. You put the other 17 packs aside and move onto the third box. 11 packs into it, you pull a Ripken. You put the other packs 25 packs aside and move onto the fourth box. Well, you get the point. In the end, you have a lot of packs left over that probably do not contain a Ripken. You put those packs back in the empty boxes and wallah, you have 1982 Wax Boxes that have been searched, but not resealed. Then you ship them to Steve Hart for authentication. He authenticates them and wraps the boxes in cellophane with his logo, slaps a hologram and a label on there and sends them back to you. There, you have 1982 wax boxes with Steve Hart's approval. You sell the wax boxes and then some buyer feels all warm and fuzzy about their purchase because it has been authenticated by BBCE.

That's probably what happened to you.

[jfkheat]

How were the 89 Upper Deck packs resealed?
James

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Was it ever determined that Jose sold his fake packs? If so, shame on him. If not, I don't really see where he did anything wrong.

I work for one of the largest oil and gas engineering companies in the world. My current project is the expansion of an oil production platform in the Gulf of Mexico. Our client is BP. Next week, my project will have a quality audit, the focus of which will be on me and my department. Anybody else ever have an audit at their job?

If Jose didn't sell any of his creations, then as far as I'm concerned it was a quality audit for Steve. Steve failed...over and over. Period, end of story.

But, again, if he did sell his pack creations, shame on him and thanks to Leon for giving him the boot.

Responded to wrong post by David. Will repost.

[EldoEsq]

Originally Posted by maximus35

Just for the record I AM IN NO WAY ACCUSING STEVE HART OF RESEALING PACKS. My concern was about getting what I truly believe were reselled packs authenticated by BBC exchange off members of ebay. I decided to buy direct from BBC exchange and experienced the same problem. I know for a fact the 89 upper deck and 83 OPC were resealed that I got off ebay. The 1982 topps football cards I got direct from BBC exchange were suspicious. I have not opened 82 topps fb packs since I was a kid. I cannot remember if there were glue on the top of every card in the pack but I find it strange every single card had glue on the top. I can scan pics for proof if some of you are skeptical. I find it odd that every single "good" card I pulled from all 3 boxes had issues (small creases, gum stuck to the back, glue on the front, and dinged corners). I can see past the dinged corners, but what explains the glue on top of every card and few cards having creases? Ive never gotten any creases in any of the commons…..just the good cards. Also, whats the explanation as to why some of the packs (about 2 per box) were not fully sealed and/or sealed like a 3yr old sealed them….unlike the other packs.

I am not saying steve reselled the boxes, but is it possible that whomever he bough them from was able to pull as fast one on him if he did not sit and examine every single pack which I doubt he had time to do.

I wouldnt think that people who search packs and reseal put damaged stars back into them...wouldnt you rather have a damaged Griffey than a mint Ruben Sierra? Which would sell for more?

I personally opened 2 cases of Upper Deck as a 14 year old in '89. I still have every Griffey I pulled. 3 of them came with the same big crease down the middle. I sent them back to Upper Deck, and they sent me nicer copies. I opened another box about 2 years later, and sure enough, the Griffey I pulled had that same damn crease! I still have it, I'll try to take a pic later tonight.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Wax boxes are easy to manipulate. The wax you bought was probably good stuff (not resealed), but it was searched. Let me explain. Let's say you have 10 wax boxes of 1982 Topps Baseball. You open a box and 7 packs into it you pull a Ripken. You put the other 29 packs aside and move on to the second box. 19 packs into it, you pull a Ripken. You put the other 17 packs aside and move onto the third box. 11 packs into it, you pull a Ripken. You put the other packs 25 packs aside and move onto the fourth box. Well, you get the point. In the end, you have a lot of packs left over that probably do not contain a Ripken. You put those packs back in the empty boxes and wallah, you have 1982 Wax Boxes that have been searched, but not resealed. Then you ship them to Steve Hart for authentication. He authenticates them and wraps the boxes in cellophane with his logo, slaps a hologram and a label on there and sends them back to you. There, you have 1982 wax boxes with Steve Hart's approval. You sell the wax boxes and then some buyer feels all warm and fuzzy about their purchase because it has been authenticated by BBCE.

That's probably what happened to you.

Except that does not match his complaint which was that he pulled good cards but they were dinged, and some packs were not properly sealed.

[jfkheat]

Originally Posted by maximus35

Just for the record I AM IN NO WAY ACCUSING STEVE HART OF RESEALING PACKS. My concern was about getting what I truly believe were reselled packs authenticated by BBC exchange off members of ebay. I decided to buy direct from BBC exchange and experienced the same problem. I know for a fact the 89 upper deck and 83 OPC were resealed that I got off ebay. The 1982 topps football cards I got direct from BBC exchange were suspicious. I have not opened 82 topps fb packs since I was a kid. I cannot remember if there were glue on the top of every card in the pack but I find it strange every single card had glue on the top. I can scan pics for proof if some of you are skeptical. I find it odd that every single "good" card I pulled from all 3 boxes had issues (small creases, gum stuck to the back, glue on the front, and dinged corners). I can see past the dinged corners, but what explains the glue on top of every card and few cards having creases? Ive never gotten any creases in any of the commons…..just the good cards. Also, whats the explanation as to why some of the packs (about 2 per box) were not fully sealed and/or sealed like a 3yr old sealed them….unlike the other packs.

I am not saying steve reselled the boxes, but is it possible that whomever he bough them from was able to pull as fast one on him if he did not sit and examine every single pack which I doubt he had time to do.

Before I start, did you contact BBCE to voice your concerns before posting here, CU and whatever other message boards you posted this on? Or did you just decide to come to these various forums to bash one of the most honest and respected dealers in the hobby?

In your first message you mentioned pulling a 1983 OPC Gwynn that "had gum stuck to the back that seemed glued on." Anyone that has opened 80s packs has had this happen. I have seen packs where the gum ruined several cards in the pack. This happens because the boxes weren't stored properly and probably got too warm causing the gum to start melting. How is this Steve's fault?

To think that there are no damaged cards in 80s factory sealed packs is naive. It your original message you mentioned that in all of the 82 football packs that there was "glue over the top card in every pack." These packs were heat sealed with wax, not glue, so it is common for the last card to have wax on it. It is also common for some packs to be sealed better that others. Some may barely be sealed and may have the seal come loose.

Now, on to the 89 Upper Deck boxes. I would think it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to open and reseal these packs. Just like the 80s Topps boxes, there were damaged cards in these factory sealed packs too. The fact that you pulled two Griffey's is a good sign that there was nothing wrong with this box. Many of the 89 Upper Deck boxes had no Griffey cards.

Steve is human so he is not perfect. I'm sure there are boxes or packs that have slipped by. It is possible that you may have had bad boxes but to come here bashing Steve without talking to him first is in very poor taste.

JMO,
James

[maximus35]

Did you not read my posts? I never once accused Steve of anything. Just because he is an "honest" guy doesn't mean he cant make mistakes. The boxes I bought off eBay were more suspect to the one I got direct from BBC exchange. I know for a fact the 89 upper deck bb were resEaled. They were my favorite packs to open as a kid. The packs I got off eBay were not even sealed the same way and some very barely sealed at all. The seller was even accused of resealing packs by other members but I didn't read all the feedback before purchasing cuz his overall feedback was high. If any of you wanna pm me I will be more than happy to tell you the seller to see for yourself. I almost wanna buy another box and send a pack to each of you guys that doubt me.

I didn't make this post to ruin Steves business....but you Guys have to agree this hobby is very corrupt. Look at Bill Mastro and James Spence. I am not putting Steve in this category but am saying that sellers on eBay are tampering with boxes sealed by BBC exchange. The boxes are just shrink wrapped. It's not hard to reseal plastic. The packs of 82 topps FB have glue on them not wax. The glue is on the opposite side of the gum. So I had cards damaged by glue and with gum. I will be more than happy to send any of you guys some of the cards damaged with glue just so you can see.

Again, quit thinking I'm accusing Steve of doing any of this. I am saying he either made a mistake authenticating the packs or other people are tampering with them. Does Steve really sit and go thru every single pack in every box before authenticating them? If so what's the theory as to why every single good cArd in all 3 boxes had issues???

[Rich Klein]

I have known Steve for nearly 30 years and he and his staff are as good as they come.

However, there is even a different issue when it comes to 1989 Upper Deck packs. Because so many packs were sold, there were many unscrupulous dealers who would know how to search those packs (not in a way you would expect) and could put packs into a box without a collector having any chance for a Griffey.

Because of that, there is no way for Steve, or anyone else to know, if the packs were placed back into a box and purported to be unopened when in fact the key pull was already missing.

So. unless your 1989 box is coming from an previously unopened case, frankly anything is possible with 1989 Upper Deck and caution is urged at all times.

Rich

[jfkheat]

Rich,
The op, whatever his name is, said that the 89 Upper Deck packs were opened and resealed. He also mentioned that he pulled two Griffeys but both were damaged. I would think it would be very difficult to reseal the Upper Deck foil packs.

Whatever his name is never answered my question about contacting BBCE before posting here.

James

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by maximus35

Did you not read my posts? I never once accused Steve of anything. Just because he is an "honest" guy doesn't mean he cant make mistakes. The boxes I bought off eBay were more suspect to the one I got direct from BBC exchange. I know for a fact the 89 upper deck bb were resEaled. They were my favorite packs to open as a kid. The packs I got off eBay were not even sealed the same way and some very barely sealed at all. The seller was even accused of resealing packs by other members but I didn't read all the feedback before purchasing cuz his overall feedback was high. If any of you wanna pm me I will be more than happy to tell you the seller to see for yourself. I almost wanna buy another box and send a pack to each of you guys that doubt me.

I didn't make this post to ruin Steves business....but you Guys have to agree this hobby is very corrupt. Look at Bill Mastro and James Spence. I am not putting Steve in this category but am saying that sellers on eBay are tampering with boxes sealed by BBC exchange. The boxes are just shrink wrapped. It's not hard to reseal plastic. The packs of 82 topps FB have glue on them not wax. The glue is on the opposite side of the gum. So I had cards damaged by glue and with gum. I will be more than happy to send any of you guys some of the cards damaged with glue just so you can see.

Again, quit thinking I'm accusing Steve of doing any of this. I am saying he either made a mistake authenticating the packs or other people are tampering with them. Does Steve really sit and go thru every single pack in every box before authenticating them? If so what's the theory as to why every single good cArd in all 3 boxes had issues???

You started out by saying, "Do you guys trust BBC exchange to buy sealed boxes from? How do you know they are not rewrapping wax packs?" To me that doesn't sound like someone claiming he made an innocent mistake.

[jfkheat]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You started out by saying, "Do you guys trust BBC exchange to buy sealed boxes from? How do you know they are not rewrapping wax packs?" To me that doesn't sound like someone claiming he made an innocent mistake.

Don't forget the title of the thread, Issues with BBC exchange.
James

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jfkheat

Rich,
...
Whatever his name is never answered my question about contacting BBCE before posting here.

James

His name is in the second post.

.

[jfkheat]

Originally Posted by Leon

His name is in the second post.

.

I must be missing it. I don't see his name.
James

[Arsenal83]

I've bought thousands of dollars of boxes from Steve, but I always buy FASC. The concern I've always had about buying wrapped boxes second hand is that anyone can replicate Steve's shrink wrap and even get his logo printed on it. Furthermore, how hard would it be to make stickers like what's used on the bottoms? The hologram he now uses ads maybe a little more security, but honestly, even those can be easily replicated.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Arsenal83

I've bought thousands of dollars of boxes from Steve, but I always buy FASC.

Can't go wrong with FASC. If Steve says they're FASC, they must be FASC.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=Bbce

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jfkheat

I must be missing it. I don't see his name.
James

Read all of the 2nd post in this thread. Then let me know....

[jfkheat]

Originally Posted by Leon

Read all of the 2nd post in this thread. Then let me know....

OOPS, Sorry, I was looking at the OP's second post. Thanks
James

[Vintage4Me]

This forum has been very useful in identifying resealed cellos. Does anyone know any tips to look for fraudulent rack packs from the 70's? It would be pretty difficult to reseal them without being detected so are people manufacturing their own with a vintage look and feel??