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#1
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Hello,
Im considering starting a graded 1952 Topps collection (low grade PSA 1-4) My questions are: Any advice from you guys on someone just starting out on the 1952 Topps set ?set? Also, im looking to do this as an investment set to leave my grandkids for when they are adults so my other question is: Do you think 1952 Topps is a good long term investment that will keep going up in value? Example when our grand kids are in their 50s, 60s, 70s of all the Topps sets will 52 Topps be the one set to have in regards to value? Or the one set that will keep its value or been collected the most? Thanks! |
#2
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Buying baseball cards is not an investment. Talk to an investment advisor about how to invest for your heirs.
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk |
#3
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So I take it that you think the 1952 Topps set is not a good investment? (My question is about baseball cards only not non card investment advice as I abreast have that part covered! Thanks
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#4
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I am glad to hear you have an investment advisor. Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk |
#5
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__________________
Seeking very scarce/rare cards for my Sam Rice master collection, e.g., E210 York Caramel Type 2 (upgrade), 1931 W502, W504 (upgrade), W572 sepia, W573, W575-1 E. S. Rice version, 1922 Haffner's Bread, 1922 Keating Candy, 1922 Witmor Candy Type 2 (vertical back), 1926 Sports Co. of Am. with ad & blank backs. Also T216 Kotton "NGO" card of Hugh Jennings. Also 1917 Merchants Bakery & Weil Baking cards of WaJo. |
#6
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A baseball card has no earning power. The only way you can make money on a card is to sell it to someone for more than you paid for it. It has no intrinsic value. Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk |
#7
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There is no requirement that your investment potentially earns income. Do your stocks pay a dividend if the company loses money? If your rental property generates more expenses than rental income, you are doing worse than investing in a non-income generating asset. Baseball cards are an investment. To the OP, start with the big HOFers, Mantle, Robinson and Mays then move on to the other high number HOFers, the low HOFers and high number commons. Do the low number commons last. |
#8
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If Al is right the person who bought this is going to regret it if they were hoping it was a good investment
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#9
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For what my two cents are worth, I don't view baseball cards as investments either, they're first and foremost a hobby. That being said, 1952 Topps has a long track record of increasing in value historically, and I don't know of any reason why that won't continue.
From a pure investment perspective there are better ways to invest your money. If you're looking to provide a tangible piece of nostalgia for your grandkids that might increase in value, 1952 Topps is as good as any option in the vintage baseball card sphere. The cards are beautiful, scarce (relative to most sets that followed), in high demand, and are anchored by the most important card in the hobby. That seems to me like a good recipe to at least preserve the value of your money. |
#10
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And as you point out, you can make bad investments and lose money. Some investments are relatively safe, like bank CDs, while others are riskier. The baseline question the OP asks is whether he should buy certain graded baseball cards as an asset for his heirs. If you want to speculate in cards, that's fine. You can do what you want with your own money. But if you think it's a good way to build wealth to pass on to your kids, that's misguided. Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk |
#11
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I tend to agree with the sentiment that you shouldn't buy baseball cards as investments.
But, it's hard to argue they haven't been good investments historically. That's fine if you want to consider it an investment. Are your kids/grandkids collectors? Do they care who Cookie Lavagetto is? What about Smoky Burgess? Not to take anything away from Lavagetto or Burgess, but about 90% of the 407 cards in the '52 set are commons that the average person doesn't know or care about. It's also much more difficult to store, sell, and ship 407 cards and their plastic tombs. No idea what your budget is. But my advice would be to take whatever you think that budget is, and buy them a handful of cards. If you're fixated on '52 Topps, the Mantle, Robinson, Mays, and Mathews are inarguably the top 4. Venture out to '33 Goudey Ruth, T206 Cobbs. The classics. If you're buying these purely for inheritance to your heirs in hopes they increase in value, my advice is quality over quantity. Last edited by rsdill2; 12-13-2024 at 01:24 PM. |
#12
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I think after thousands of years of history to draw on, "art" is rightly classified as an investment. Some goes up, some goes down. Some goes up, then comes down. If art can be deemed an investment, then certainly sportscards, visual displays of sports heroes of their time, are at least art adjacent, if not art itself.
So, if you reject the concept of art as an investment, then I guess it follows that sportscards are also not an investment. Otherwise, on some level, you must concede that sportscards are an investment, leaving the only issue open to debate whether sportscards are a good or bad investment. Once you have a certain amount in stocks, bonds, real estate and bitcoin, it is kind of nice to spread your "investments" into things that bring you enjoyment. Art, rare cars, watches, and sportscards fall into that category. I certainly view my collection as an investment and justify allocating a portion of my income to sportscards as investments (even have my wife on board). As for 1952, my opinion is long term it will continue to do well. However, if you are trying to support the opposite view, the original collectors of 1952 Topps cards are now in their 70s and 80s, so the ones holding/collecting these cards for true nostalgia's sake is waning. I feel reasonably old, and I never saw Hank Aaron or Willie Mays play, and they were still hitting in the 70s, much less Mantle, Jackie, Matthews, Berra and a handful of others that drive the value of the set. Once all of the current older collectors pass on their 1952 collections to heirs that are not interested in sportscards, how will that impact the supply in the market and where will the "new" demand come from? The fact that you are not currently a 1952 Topps collector but are contemplating starting one is anecdotal evidence that there are new 1952 Topps collectors still entering the market, but where the supply and demand curves meet in the future is the unanswerable question. |
#13
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Different issue:
PSA 1-4s are considered "Collector's grade" for a reason. They don't drastically change in value, but neither are they sought out (except maybe the high numbers and gray backs). I did a study on here a few years ago that showed the drastic losses that PSA 8 1952 Topps grades suffered.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#14
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I'd agree with the general sentiment here that if you want to collect the 52T set, then do it for your collecting enjoyment, and maybe even something that you can share with your progeny.
If the cardboard goes up in value between now and some future date when it's sold, then that's just gravy. But if the investment element is your primary focus, then my recommendation would be to invest in more traditional investment assets.
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Trying to wrap up my master mays set, with just a few left: 1968 American Oil left side 1971 Bazooka numbered complete panel |
#15
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Found this cartoon in an issue of Esquire back in the 80's - always wondered if the diplomas on the wall behind the desk were business related or psychology.
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#16
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With respect to whether art is an investment, I think you answered your own question. Many people, once they achieve a certain level of wealth, spend some of their money to buy things for their own enjoyment. It's fine to have a collection of nice watches or a garage full of vintage cars. And it's nice to have expensive paintings on your wall. But people don't do that, for the most part, to increase their wealth but instead to appreciate what they have. You mentioned Bitcoin as an investment. Do you own Bitcoin? If so, tell me how you decide what is a fair price. It's trading right now for about $100,000 per coin. Do you think that's a good deal or a bad deal? Tell me why. For any investment, you should be able to estimate how much income the asset will earn for you, over what period of time, and based on that, you can decide how much you will pay for it. If instead you are speculating, then all you can say is I expect this asset to go up or down because..... There are some instances I suppose where art can be an investment. For example, if an art museum wants to display a Jackson Pollock and you can rent one to them, then there is intrinsic value there to base a price. For the most part, though, art is not an investment. You could make money on art: as you say, it goes up and down, but volatility in price does not by itself make something an investment. Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk Last edited by Gorditadogg; 12-13-2024 at 07:25 PM. |
#17
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Probably not much downside risk buying raw cards other than reselling costs. Probably best to buy lots, at first to save postage costs. |
#18
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Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk |
#19
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https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...light=realized
Although there is sparse data actually listed, all the info is still on the APR site at PSA.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. Last edited by swarmee; 12-14-2024 at 09:27 AM. |
#20
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Still good stuff there. If you pick a card and a grade, you can see a chart showing prices going back as far as 2005. |
#21
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You seem to have a very narrow view of what constitutes an investment, and for you the definition includes some ability to forecast future returns. Ironically, the three investment types you reference (stocks, bonds and real estate) fail your own definition. We can no more predict what Nvidia, P&G and Microsoft will be worth in 10 years than we can a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle. And anybody that believes the real estate market is predictable was not paying attention during the bust cycles in the 80s and late-00s. I have spent enough time in both the stock market and real estate market to know that neither one of them is the least bit predicable, but I invest heavily in both because (like cards and numerous other asset classes), they have performed well over my lifetime and, as previously stated, I want to be invested in what everyone else is investing in so I am not the one left behind when society prospers. At base, I believe every dollar you spend on an asset that is not intended to be "used up" is on some level an investment. From there, it is up for society to determine whether such purchase was a "good" or "bad" investment, which is usually only knowable with hindsight. Circling back to your original premise that art purchasers are primarily people who have achieved a level of wealth and simply want to spend their money to "enjoy" a piece of art, I do not believe that to be true. I have talked and read of several art purchasers who purchase notable art pieces, and while enjoyment certainly enters the equation, the expectation that the art will appreciate is usually at the core of their purchasing decision (unless it is a publicity stunt where a guy just wants to burn millions of dollars to eat a banana). I believe that in over 90% of cases where a 1952 Topps Mantle is sold, the purchaser's motivation includes value retention and appreciation. Very few are spending 6 digits completely ambivalent to the asset's future value. |
#22
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Company's stocks are priced based on their expected future profits. If you understand the company's business and estimate their prospects well, you can continue to hold the stock and take future dividends. Once the profits prove out, the stock price will adjust to reflect its underlying profits. For real estate, you can collect rents and earn cash flow. The point is, there is underlying financial value to these assets that you can measure, and that you continue to accrue while you have the asset. Contrast that with your 52T Mantle. There is nothing that card is doing to earn anything for you. It is just sitting in your closet, or safe deposit box. The only way you can get any financial return on that card is to sell it to somebody else. There is no Plan B. You can make money on cards, for sure. A lot of people on this board have made a lot of money buying and selling cards. Good for them. I hope to eventually sell my cards for a profit. But just understand that if you are buying cards hoping to sell them for more later, you are not investing, you are speculating. |
#23
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__________________
Working Sets: Baseball- T206 SLers - Virginia League (-1) 1952 Topps - low numbers (-1) 1954 Bowman (-3) 1964 Topps Giants auto'd (-2) |
#24
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If some years back you had decided to buy stock in Eron and Worldcom and a 52 Mantle you made at least one good choice
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#25
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They are still investments. Their pricing is based on intrinsic valuation. There is underlying income there although the company reinvests it, rather than paying it out. The fact they don't pay dividends makes them riskier. Many people who buy and sell stock are speculating for sure.
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#26
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Selfishly, I wish people would not buy vintage cards for investment because it takes cards out of circulation and drives up prices for pure collectors like me.
I would be hesitant to invest in cards for my kids or grandchildren, unless they were really into baseball. I would invest in land to help them build on one day. If I had already done that, I would use my wealth to do things with them and give them things they loved now, while I am alive. Just my take.
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[FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]CampyFan39 |
#27
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![]() ![]() The false notion is that the 52T Mantle is "gonna' keep going up." The high-grade examples came down pretty hard over the past few years. The lower-grades have held up pretty well, but that doesn't mean that they are gonna' keep going up. I would not call them "investment cards" because their prices have become ridiculous now and I expect them to correct too someday. There are way better cards that you can invest in: Leaf Jackie, Bowman Mantle, Topps Aaron rookies, etc. |
#28
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You could be right but am glad I have both version of it anyway
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#29
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Ship has sailed on most of those. Heading up 20x in 3 or 4 years isn't sustainable. I'd do most of the lows raw, highs and stars graded. I'd wait out the superstars until bitcoin goes back below 20k and housing drops 50%. I kid, however people will begin to see their paper winnings shrink, start to take profits, and there should be a rush to the exits.
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#30
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Hopefully you got em' at the right time. Can you show me ??
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#31
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Fortunately quites some time ago
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#32
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Very nice, congrats.
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#33
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Agree, neat to see. Glad you had the foresight to purchase them when you did
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#34
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Circling back to this, my original thought was, focusing on a“Sportscards” investment for my heirs, my thought was that when my grandkids are 50-60 years old, they would say thanks grandpa for leaving my a complete 1952 topps graded set! (Meaning it would be a nice chunk of change for them when they are old farts!) vs leaving them a 5,000 count box of 1988 topps!
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#35
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I think that would be less interesting to heirs than 10 top Hall of Fame Rookie Cards. And it would take up a bunch more space.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#36
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It’s funny because just after I hit the submit reply button on my message, my brain got to thinking this exact thing! I started thinking, “well, I could continue my other project (I have several different collecting projects im working on currently) of collecting a 1951–1959 topps complete run of cards OR maybe it will be better to focus on some really great cards like a 54 topps Hank Aaron and 1955 topps Roberto Clemente and 1968 Nolan Ryan or 53 topps Robinson, Mays and Paige. More of a quality vs quantity type of vintage collection. My problem is that in our hobby there are so many awesome cards I want to collect them ALL! But I agree with you my friend and you are 110% right, quality vs quantity might be the better hand to play (and better value wise for my heirs) if I’m reading this right, for example instead of trying to collect a 1952 topps graded set (minus the mantle) or trying to complete a 1951-1959 topps run (minus the mantle) it would be financially better to instead focus on collecting key HOF cards from the 1950’s? Last edited by homerunhitter; 02-02-2025 at 04:17 PM. Reason: Added comment that I agreed with John’s comment |
#37
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__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#38
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#39
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Also,
While looking at HOF Topps cards on eBay to purchase. For long term value, do you recommend/prefer signed or unsigned HOF Topps rookie cards? Would love to hear your thoughts on that. Thank you |
#40
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Others on Net54 have made similar comments. My question is, why do you think that? What you are saying in essence is that HOF RC cards will double in value relative to commons. What are you expecting will cause that? Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk |
#41
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Historical trends continuing, at least in collector grade cards.
I already pointed out on this board multiple instances of PSA 8 commons from 1952 Topps dropping thousands of dollars in value a decade ago over a spam of a couple of years. But demand remains on stars, hall of famers, and errors like the Yellow Tiger House because of their names staying in the national consciousness. The Grady Hattons of the world don't move the needle.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#42
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This question was for John (I forgot to use the quote in my response) Also, While looking at HOF Topps cards on eBay to purchase. For long term value, do you recommend/prefer signed or unsigned HOF Topps rookie cards? Would love to hear your thoughts on that. Thank you |
#43
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Ah, I like both for investment/collecting purposes. For the 50s/60s cards, you're pretty much locked into the ones signed already, since many of the HOFs from those decades have now passed or stopped signing.
I actually just sold a 1933 Goudey Bill Dickey signed card this morning. It was in rough shape, but because it was autographed was valuable. I'd prefer to focus more on the fan favorite types than the standard HOFs that don't make you imagine how good they were. Guys like Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, Carlton Fisk, ones that you still see in the highlight clips.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#44
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Im glad that I started this thread and that you gave your thoughts on this because prior to this thread I thought 100% that “any” 1952 topps would be a great investment due to it being such an old and iconic set! Now I am seeing that the 1952 topps set might not be so “automatic” when it comes to long term value. |
#45
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I think another thing that might mess with my OCD is if I started to collect these, is if PSA changes it’s slabs again! For me, I’ll have to have all the slabs matching plus I really don’t like the look of the the older PSA slabs. It would suck, if I collected these and PSA changed their Slabs halfway through!
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#46
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One constant...is change! Dont forget, slabs over the years dont all stack together perfectly!
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#47
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https://forums.collectors.com/discus...ss-psa-10-sets He started the thread and ripping back in 2018 when bulk grading was $6 each. He wanted to wait to submit the vast majority when he had complete sets, and then COVID boom happened, and submission prices went up to $20 minimum at one point. So the odds of him ever submitting all these perfect 10s he's been stockpiling is almost zero. So don't let little things like slab/flip differences matter when it comes to your collecting. Take advantage of the opportunities you're given, when they're offered to you.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
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