PWCC Auction Yet Again

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by FourStrikes

CHICO Escuela. "...baseball has been berry, berry good to me..."

NOT being a d!ck - posted only for accuracy (BTW, it's a great quote!)

Sorry 'bout that...broken English is only my second language.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

You admit you aren't a dealer and don't make a living selling cards but call people that don't want to lose money on an investment they have made "bad at their job"? You are right we need more dealers in this hobby that offer people pennies on the dollar for their quality items because that makes them "good at their job", because hey, they never lose money right!?!

Honestly, it isn't that hard to wait for a screaming deal that may show up from time to time and then sell for a pretty good profit. We have all done this. Making these types of deals in bulk and consistently turning a profit is very difficult and I know I don't envy people that try to make a living doing so.

I never said pennies on the dollar...just fair market price. And wait are they investing or buying for resale? Investing is totally different.

Recently I messaged with a gentleman selling a Mean Joe Greene PSA 8.5 RC card currently for $25k despite the fact that it is about a 2-3k card. He wrote me a dissertation about why that price is accurate yet he won't purchase the other PSA 8.5 sitting there for (also overly inflated price) $11k. I just said "thank you".

If the public actually educated themselves, shops like Dean's Cards would be out of business. But gotta give him credit because they "are one of the only trusted sports card stores on eBay" and they have their own grading system and neat little stickers (gasp)...and probably a truck full of money out back so who am I to judge.

And yes I do believe dealers who invest in items they can't afford and then hold them for years at ridiculously inflated prices are dumb.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ksabet

I never said pennies on the dollar...just fair market price. And wait are they investing or buying for resale? Investing is totally different.

Recently I messaged with a gentleman selling a Mean Joe Greene PSA 8.5 RC card currently for $25k despite the fact that it is about a 2-3k card. He wrote me a dissertation about why that price is accurate yet he won't purchase the other PSA 8.5 sitting there for (also overly inflated price) $11k. I just said "thank you".

If the public actually educated themselves, shops like Dean's Cards would be out of business. But gotta give him credit because they "are one of the only trusted sports card stores on eBay" and they have their own grading system and neat little stickers (gasp)...and probably a truck full of money out back so who am I to judge.

And yes I do believe dealers who invest in items they can't afford and then hold them for years at ridiculously inflated prices are dumb.

An educated consumer is the best consumer. A few months ago I bought a card from Deans for $2480 and sold it a month later for a $1200 profit. Otherwise, on my other deals with them I will probably lose about $200. All in all not that bad. I just need to work on the $200 mistake(s). I like Dean's Cards, personally.

AND to get back on track, there are reasons PWCC is kicking butt. For one, they advertise a ton. For two, they seem to be bringing stellar cards to market with their business model. And for three, Brent isn't afraid of transparency which goes a long ways in building trust (see his offerings). IS there still work to do on the auction bidding anomalies, of course. But PWCC is doing a fine job at the moment and their sales are proving it out.

.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Leon

An educated consumer is the best consumer. A few months ago I bought a card from Deans for $2480 and sold it a month later for a $1200 profit. Otherwise, on my other deals with them I will probably lose about $200. All in all not that bad. I just need to work on the $200 mistake(s). I like Dean's Cards, personally.

AND to get back on track, there are reasons PWCC is kicking butt. For one, they advertise a ton. For two, they seem to be bringing stellar cards to market with their business model. And for three, Brent isn't afraid of transparency which goes a long ways in building trust (see his offerings). IS there still work to do on the auction bidding anomalies, of course. But PWCC is doing a fine job at the moment and their sales are proving it out.

.

Agree. At this time, with their current fee structure and wildly successful business model, I see no compelling reason to consign a graded sportscard with anyone else. Arguments can be made to the contrary of course.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

sorry to hear this...buy obviously you're not in the "in" crowd!!!!!

I would rather have a clear conscious and integrity than be in the "in" crowd if thats what you are saying

[bxb]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Agree. At this time, with their current fee structure and wildly successful business model, I see no compelling reason to consign a graded sportscard with anyone else.

Agreed. Hopefully, continued success will not lead to them raising their fees, in which case they would fall back into the crowd of other AHs.

[Snapolit1]

I wonder if in the age of eBay the 30 day auction, I will get you a catalog eventually, isn't fading into the background. People want action. 10 days from announcing it to it ending seems right to me -- and PWCC doesn't require you to stay up to 4:30 am either. Maybe some of the other AH's should take note. I can plan my life with these auctions. Tonight's ends at 9:30 for me. Last few Heritage and others I lost in the middle of the night while fast asleep. I'm not playing that game anymore.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by Leon

An educated consumer is the best consumer. A few months ago I bought a card from Deans for $2480 and sold it a month later for a $1200 profit. Otherwise, on my other deals with them I will probably lose about $200. All in all not that bad. I just need to work on the $200 mistake(s). I like Dean's Cards, personally.

AND to get back on track, there are reasons PWCC is kicking butt. For one, they advertise a ton. For two, they seem to be bringing stellar cards to market with their business model. And for three, Brent isn't afraid of transparency which goes a long ways in building trust (see his offerings). IS there still work to do on the auction bidding anomalies, of course. But PWCC is doing a fine job at the moment and their sales are proving it out.

.

They also have some very dedicated bidders .... here is an idea of what you can see on just about every item they offer. Maybe not 100% on all, but you can see how loyal a following these guys have!

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 54
Items bid on: 23
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by Neal

They also have some very dedicated bidders .... here is an idea of what you can see on just about every item they offer. Maybe not 100% on all, but you can see how loyal a following these guys have!

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 54
Items bid on: 23
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

Yes if you consider consignors bidding on their own items to be loyalty

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ksabet

Yes if you consider consignors bidding on their own items to be loyalty

They do seem to be very loyal bidders.

[Snapolit1]

I have a hard time recalling my last eBay bid for an important card that wasn't PWCC. I'm sure if someone pulled my history with them they'd say it's suspicious too.

Just pulled down the one card I wanted more than anything else out there. 10 day auction and I'm not going to go to bed wondering if some guy in Californoa who works nights is going to beat me to it at 3:45 am. Yes. Thank you PWCC.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I have a hard time recalling my last eBay bid for an important card that wasn't PWCC. I'm sure if someone pulled my history with them they'd say it's suspicious too.

Just pulled down the one card I wanted more than anything else out there. 10 day auction and I'm not going to go to bed wondering if some guy in Californoa who works nights is going to beat me to it at 3:45 am. Yes. Thank you PWCC.

My history would show similar results. A couple of bids with Sean and maybe Probstein, but no one else else comes close to putting the quality and quantity of high end cards up for auction as pwcc. I bet my profile shows 80-90% with him. And I don't shill my own consignments.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

My history would show similar results. A couple of bids with Sean and maybe Probstein, but no one else else comes close to putting the quality and quantity of high end cards up for auction as pwcc. I bet my profile shows 80-90% with him. And I don't shill my own consignments.

Cause no one else gets the money they do. It's a catch-22.

[Tennis13]

So I had my eye on a few cards to understand the market, but not to buy. The last 30 seconds of this auction were insane:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/401148338576?_mwBanner=1

Is this "normal" for high grade cards or was this a one-off where two guys really wanted it?

[Snapolit1]

Pretty normal pattern. Two or three folks battling it out at the end. Many of these high end cards double in bid in last minute. Most people figure why bother a constant battle for days, just slug it out in the 15th round. Rope a dope before that.

[CardMD]

Probstein has a Red Cobb just started in PSA 8!! Tells you this is becoming the preferred way for high end!

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by bnorth

They do seem to be very loyal bidders.

And the price is the price! Not 19.5% more.

Frankly, it's refreshing.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

And the price is the price! Not 19.5% more.

Frankly, it's refreshing.

Price is the price for buyers...not for the seller who consigned.....selling price is going to be lower than whatever someone pays for it one ebay

however price is the price usually for sellers at other auctions houses with the auction house taking the extra 19.5 for whatever percent..

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Price is the price for buyers...not for the seller who consigned.....selling price is going to be lower than whatever someone pays for it one ebay

however price is the price usually for sellers at other auctions houses with the auction house taking the extra 19.5 for whatever percent..

??

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

??

Glad I wasnt the only one completely confused by that sentence

[ksabet]

Frankly if you've been on this board long enough and you don't heed the warnings in regards to certain sellers than you deserve everything you get.

I am not willing to bid on my own items therefore I would not do as well in PWCC.

Its really baffling to me that people are impressed with their prices.


Watch a movie called "Exit Through The Gift Shop". A fantastic doc that eventually shows how perception and public ignorance are a bad mixture when purchasing vanity items.

[Snapolit1]

Price wise I would take their high end items vs. same items selling at nearly all of the major auction houses (+18.5%). Any day of the week. And I don't need to be up to 4 am to win it. Want to talk games, I'll talk what goes on at some of these AHs.

PWCC also has no conceivable way to know what my max bid is. I also like that. A lot. That's fraud protection of the highest order.

I really hope PWCC's rapid ascendancy is causing some of these other guys to reevaluate their business model. Start by closing auctions 15 minutes after no one bids - on that item. Show some respect for your customers.
Maybe I'm peeing in the wind. All I know is that Brent & Co. are currently getting about 75% of my card budget.

[balltrash]

Originally Posted by ksabet

Frankly if you've been on this board long enough and you don't heed the warnings in regards to certain sellers than you deserve everything you get.

I am not willing to bid on my own items therefore I would not do as well in PWCC.

Its really baffling to me that people are impressed with their prices.


Watch a movie called "Exit Through The Gift Shop". A fantastic doc that eventually shows how perception and public ignorance are a bad mixture when purchasing vanity items.

I just had two items end last night which I consigned to PWCC. One was low dollar and brought and half of what I'd been hoping for. The other was a higher end complete set which brought nearly $2,000 more than I had expected. I am extremely impressed with that price and now firmly believe that Brent and Co have a dedicated following that are willing to ante up and pay for a comfort level and professionalism that can not otherwise be found on ebay.

Do people shill their material? Undoubtedly. Does it occur as frequently as it is made out to? I doubt that. I didn't do it.

Quality material sells itself. Those who want it are discerning by nature and I am not at all surprised they would choose to work with one ebay seller over others whom remain essentially anonymous. I would wager that even the most prominent board members here would be unknown to a significant number of world class collectors who never stumble upon this forum. It is far more likely that they find PWCC on ebay than net54baseball.com. No knock on net54, just pointing out how much bigger the pool of buyers is than any of us could grasp.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

PWCC also has no conceivable way to know what my max bid is. I also like that. A lot. That's fraud protection of the highest order.

Wow the problem is worse than I thought. . Smh

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by balltrash

I just had two items end last night which I consigned to PWCC. One was low dollar and brought and half of what I'd been hoping for. The other was a higher end complete set which brought nearly $2,000 more than I had expected. I am extremely impressed with that price and now firmly believe that Brent and Co have a dedicated following that are willing to ante up and pay for a comfort level and professionalism that can not otherwise be found on ebay.

Do people shill their material? Undoubtedly. Does it occur as frequently as it is made out to? I doubt that. I didn't do it.

Quality material sells itself. Those who want it are discerning by nature and I am not at all surprised they would choose to work with one ebay seller over others whom remain essentially anonymous. I would wager that even the most prominent board members here would be unknown to a significant number of world class collectors who never stumble upon this forum. It is far more likely that they find PWCC on ebay than net54baseball.com. No knock on net54, just pointing out how much bigger the pool of buyers is than any of us could grasp.

Glad that worked for you. And good sir it has been proven that yes it is very rampant.

Brent's like a guru he's got you guys hooked. Like the cult of pwcc.


Unfortunately his auctions are creating price points that shouldn't be due to card owners driving up prices on their own cards. I have seen the unnatural jump since his store became popular.

Hey use pwcc all you want, again it's your money. Dont lose sleep over it...we know Mr. Huigens doesn't.

[robw1959]

I also consigned an item that outsold my expectations, realizing well over the $2000 I was hoping for. I had listed it here on Net54 for $1995 without getting even a sniff of interest. Maybe Brent's ads, client emails, broker reputation, etc. have more to do with those high bids he gets than shill bidding after all. I certainly didn't shill my own item and still wound up with a result that was better than expected.

[jmb]

Originally Posted by robw1959

I also consigned an item that outsold my expectations, realizing well over the $2000 I was hoping for. I had listed it here on Net54 for $1995 without getting even a sniff of interest. Maybe Brent's ads, client emails, broker reputation, etc. have more to do with those high bids he gets than shill bidding after all. I certainly didn't shill my own item and still wound up with a result that was better than expected.

Same thing here. I listed 2 different cards on the BST here several months back and only received low ball offers. I sent those 2 cards into PWCC and both cards not only sold for more than I was asking on the BST, but I cleared more than I was asking even after the PWCC fees came out. I did not bid on my lots, I didn't have any friends or family members or acquaintances bid on my lots. I also never even advertised my cards were listed with PWCC like some others do. Only complaint I really had is how long it took to get paid.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by jmb

Same thing here. I listed 2 different cards on the BST here several months back and only received low ball offers. I sent those 2 cards into PWCC and both cards not only sold for more than I was asking on the BST, but I cleared more than I was asking even after the PWCC fees came out. I did not bid on my lots, I didn't have any friends or family members or acquaintances bid on my lots. I also never even advertised my cards were listed with PWCC like some others do. Only complaint I really had is how long it took to get paid.

Hey I'm really glad for you guys. I just would take a little less and know that my stuff was being sold by an ethically responsible company.

I'll stick with the few auctions I trust.

[Snapolit1]

Ok, if you don't want to do business with these guys fine. No need to disparage people who do as mindless idiots. There are some really nice AHs (love of the game and mile high quickly come to mind) and others that I wouldn't trust as far as I can throw them. I did a quick sample last night for sh*ts and giggles of recent high end Ruth Goudey sales and its abundantly clear that PWCC's prices are no higher and in many many cases lower that the leading AHs. The pages of hyperbole these guys crank out clearly work. If you want to think otherwise that's your prerogative.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Ok, if you don't want to do business with these guys fine. No need to disparage people who do as mindless idiots. There are some really nice AHs (love of the game and mile high quickly come to mind) and others that I wouldn't trust as far as I can throw them. I did a quick sample last night for sh*ts and giggles of recent high end Ruth Goudey sales and its abundantly clear that PWCC's prices are no higher and in many many cases lower that the leading AHs. The pages of hyperbole these guys crank out clearly work. If you want to think otherwise that's your prerogative.

I really didn't mean to disparage anyone.

These are the joys of a free market.

Compared to the prices we will run into at the national, PWCC might be a bargain.

[Neal]

I have won a few cards from PWCC - smooth and easy, and paid what I wanted. Now I am not sure if multitudes of consignors bid on their own stuff, and I really do not care - so be it if it happens. I am sure that they are more than willing to ante up whatever fee is involved, so that is their business/gamble and not mine. I will only pay what I am willing to pay.

I will continue to bid on his auctions, as he consistently brings choice material to the market every single. That works for all of us.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Price wise I would take their high end items vs. same items selling at nearly all of the major auction houses (+18.5%). Any day of the week. And I don't need to be up to 4 am to win it. Want to talk games, I'll talk what goes on at some of these AHs.

PWCC also has no conceivable way to know what my max bid is. I also like that. A lot. That's fraud protection of the highest order.

I really hope PWCC's rapid ascendancy is causing some of these other guys to reevaluate their business model. Start by closing auctions 15 minutes after no one bids - on that item. Show some respect for your customers.
Maybe I'm peeing in the wind. All I know is that Brent & Co. are currently getting about 75% of my card budget.

++Exactly. I guess if you want to donate your time to AH's, you can go that route. IMO, it's just plain rude to expect me to watch your auction all night. This is a hobby, not a full time job for me.

Not being able to snipe at the AH is the nail in the coffin for me. I also have a high percentage of bids at PWCC, but as I've said in the past, that statistic has no relevance to me for determining shilling.

[Touch'EmAll]

As long as reputable seller, you stick to your highest price you can comfortably afford, and within your value range, then I don't see why you care if its through PWCC, another traditional auction house, or other lesser auction. Your highest bid you are willing to pay is your highest bid you are willing to pay. Do not pay more just because its PWCC - have some self restraint. Let other people pay crazy high prices - be ok with that - because it could mean your stuff you do own is now worth more than it used to be.

[Yoda]

As a bit of a side bar, just received my first batch in the mail of PWCC cards won and as usual the speed of the shipment and quality of packing is outstanding. I know payment by Pay Pal expedites the whole AH process but, given the huge volume of cards they deal with, their shipping department seems to be a model of efficiency.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Yoda

As a bit of a side bar, just received my first batch in the mail of PWCC cards won and as usual the speed of the shipment and quality of packing is outstanding. I know payment by Pay Pal expedites the whole AH process but, given the huge volume of cards they deal with, their shipping department seems to be a model of efficiency.

I ship cards quickly too. That's easy to do on Ebay. Here here for the small seller!

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by Yoda

As a bit of a side bar, just received my first batch in the mail of PWCC cards won and as usual the speed of the shipment and quality of packing is outstanding. I know payment by Pay Pal expedites the whole AH process but, given the huge volume of cards they deal with, their shipping department seems to be a model of efficiency.

On a side note...do you work for PWCC?

Ive never seen someone start so many laudatory posts on one central subject.

[jfkheat]

Originally Posted by ksabet

On a side note...do you work for PWCC?

Ive never seen someone start so many laudatory posts on one central subject.

On a side note...do you work for an auction house.

I've never seen someone start so many derogatory posts one one central subject.


James

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by jfkheat

On a side note...do you work for an auction house.

I've never seen someone start so many derogatory posts one one central subject.


James

Funny considering this is the first time I have commented on PWCC.

But Mr. SPencer has started FOUR threads stroking PWCC

[MikeGarcia]

....from section four of the bylaws :..yada yada yada " and therefore no thread shall exceed nine pages in length without therein being posted a minimum of one (1) pre-war baseball card " yada yada yada

..Hey , I don't make the rules..


...

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

....from section four of the bylaws :..yada yada yada " and therefore no thread shall exceed nine pages in length without therein being posted a minimum of one (1) pre-war baseball card " yada yada yada

..Hey , I don't make the rules..


...

Damn, that card is sweet. Worth the nine page read for sure.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by ksabet

Funny considering this is the first time I have commented on PWCC.

But Mr. SPencer has started FOUR threads stroking PWCC

Very true, but I am not a shill media praise-giver. I have no interest in PWCC as a company or its owners, but only that they offer a nice alternative to the more traditional AH's what with no vig, easy payment options, and quick efficient shipping. Sadly, they cannot control Ebay actions, as I found out to my disgust last night when I lost a card due to no fault of PWCC. Brent even sent me a private email last night saying that next time use snipe bidding to avoid any similar episodes. I thought that was pretty classy.

[Snapolit1]

My auction closed 7/14 at 9:41pm. Paid by Paypal.

Card was at post office next afternoon 7/15 officially in transit.

You guys who want to stay up till 3 am and then have an AH hold your check for a week and then ship 9 days later crack me up. Maybe you just like to drag the process out and make it painful.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

My auction closed 7/14 at 9:41pm. Paid by Paypal.

Card was at post office next afternoon 7/15 officially in transit.

You guys who want to stay up till 3 am and then have an AH hold your check for a week and then ship 9 days later crack me up. Maybe you just like to drag the process out and make it painful.

Why must everything be so polarizing? On this thread, I've read that I'm stupid for buying from PWCC and now I'm a masochist for buying from an AH. I happily buy from both. Sure, I wish that some AHs shipped faster and accepted PP, but I'm not going to let the need for a little patience prevent me from going after a card I desire.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Why must everything be so polarizing? On this thread, I've read that I'm stupid for buying from PWCC and now I'm a masochist for buying from an AH. I happily buy from both. Sure, I wish that some AHs shipped faster and accepted PP, but I'm not going to let the need for a little patience prevent me from going after a card I desire.

+1, lots of great options out there !

[ullmandds]

man i was so close on that psa 9 rose last night. now i'm wishing i'd have bid just one notch higher!!!!

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

My auction closed 7/14 at 9:41pm. Paid by Paypal.



Card was at post office next afternoon 7/15 officially in transit.



You guys who want to stay up till 3 am and then have an AH hold your check for a week and then ship 9 days later crack me up. Maybe you just like to drag the process out and make it painful.

You must have never bought a scarce or rare baseball card before.

[Snapolit1]

Good point Sam. I wasn't trying to be polarizing but indeed may have contributed to that. There are some auction houses I like a great deal. My only point in feeding this thread is that I think there are business practices among the large AHs (particularly closing auctions at 4:30am and taking two weeks to get your stuff to the PO) that show a real lack of respect for their customers. I understand they have business reasons for doing it. And maybe its a "good business model" despite the lack of consideration these practices exhibit. But I'm done with that nonsense. As Damon Wayans used to say on Living Color, Homey don't play that anymore. PWCC's pared down business model (no glossy catalogs, take Paypal, shipping quickly, etc., etc.) has to be forcing these guys to reassess or they are foolish. We buyers only have so much money to spend.

[mechanicalman]

Totally agree with you, Steve, that there are practices that don't seem to be as consumer friendly. Personally, I've felt that the AH crowd is a bit saturated, and my hope is that the competition will force changes to offer a better product (thereby eliminating that ones that don't adapt.) But even though I think that, it feels like every week there's another thick catalog in my mailbox full of exciting material, so who knows if that will every happen?

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

You must have never bought a scarce or rare baseball card before.

LOL. Yeah, first time.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

LOL. Yeah, first time.

When a truly scarce or rare card on my wantlist comes up for public sale for the first time in many years (if ever), I don't care whether it's in REA, Heritage, LOTG, B-L (err, I mean B), eBay, or Billy-Bob's: I'm a bidder. To do otherwise would be cutting off my nose to spite my face.