Any thoughts on this Splendid Splinter

[chaddurbin]

this was mine and i sold it to the OP. i don't see alot of vintage williams to compare it to but i thought the "W" is good. the only things out of the norm to me were the "d" and the "am", but i'm far from a williams expert. the seller i bought it from assured me it'd pass psa/dna or jsa and i offer the same guarantee. hell if richard would opine his thought i'd also take it.

the buyer never expressed to me he had doubt about the auto (he's probably just looking for opionions) but like i said i'd take it back no problem.

also it's a gpc...don't know williams' habit but lots of players date their sigs. the coa is from legends are forever if anybody is familiar with them?

[bender07]

Right Chad just looking for opinions. No malice here. Williams' variations of his autograph have been a somewhat hot topic around here. I was on vaca for the last couple weeks so I haven't gotten it in my hands yet (hopefully tomorrow).

Here's another that I have, any thoughts?

[chaddurbin]

i hear ya mark. i tried looking for a couple of his vintage autos before buying this piece...don't remember which but here are a few below. i would love a free opinion from richard

from kevin keating site:



another gpc in '46:



1980 gpc:

[JollyElm]

williams.jpg

In another thread I posted the Teddy Williams I got through the mail years ago, wondering if they were authentic. Your bottom one there has the same interconnected "dW" as mine do. The plot thickens...

[chaddurbin]

no imo urs are really bad and look nothing like a modern williams auto.

on the '54 gpc the "ted" looks simplified while the "williams" look overly ornate compared to others...but one of the reasons i purchased the gpc because i was banking on the fact it's not very likely to be forged. of course i could be wrong.

[chaddurbin]

hey hey...i was thinking since the gpc is not likely forged, maybe it was secretarial or a clubhouse? and i found the below from our own board.

jon c...this was originally your scan, have a follow up for us? original thread where jon says the seller told him the family got the auto in person.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=125349

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

no imo urs are really bad and look nothing like a modern williams auto.

on the '54 gpc the "ted" looks simplified while the "williams" look overly ornate compared to others...but one of the reasons i purchased the gpc because i was banking on the fact it's not very likely to be forged. of course i could be wrong.

You almost never find a postmarked forged GPC that is true.
But on this one I lean towards it being secretarial.
Zip's analysis was a good one and this Williams just does not look right in several different ways.
And yes that group of three are painfully bad.
Darren, did you say you got them through the mail??
If so, Ted must have been breaking in a new ghost signer, who did not last very long.
They do not look like the usual TTM Ted Williams autographs.
And no Zip I won't haul out my Mona Lisa Ted on this thread. .

ps. dating the sig. would not be out of the norm, I don't consider that to be a deciding factor.

[canjond]

The 50 Bowman Williams pictured above is mine. I never figured out more info on it, nor ever paid to have PSA or JSA tell me their thoughts! I did get it from an original collection from the 1950s. All of the autos were supposedly obtained in-person by a young collector, and I have seen a great number from the collection slabbed. In the event the Williams is not good, it was certainly clubhouse then, since I doubt there was any malice involved (ie, it wasn't forged).

[chaddurbin]

thx for chiming in richard and jon. too bad you never got anything definitive J. i guess "in-person" could've been a number of things to that family if the auto is bad, and i don't think it was malicious either.

mark (OP) i would certainly take the gpc back if you have any doubt.

[bender07]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

You almost never find a postmarked forged GPC that is true.
But on this one I lean towards it being secretarial.
Zip's analysis was a good one and this Williams just does not look right in several different ways.
And yes that group of three are painfully bad.
Darren, did you say you got them through the mail??
If so, Ted must have been breaking in a new ghost signer, who did not last very long.
They do not look like the usual TTM Ted Williams autographs.
And no Zip I won't haul out my Mona Lisa Ted on this thread. .

ps. dating the sig. would not be out of the norm, I don't consider that to be a deciding factor.

Thanks for the insight Richard. Any thoughts on the 41 Play Ball?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by bender07

Thanks for the insight Richard. Any thoughts on the 41 Play Ball?

I always hate to say this,,, but if you had sent me a check to authenticate this, I would probably send you the check back and say I cannot say yes or no. It happens about two or three times a year. (I don't do the volume that the big two do, I am the boutique authenticator, and you can always get me on the phone as opposed to them).
I trust my exemplar file and I have one or two with some similarities to your sig incl. that W, but there are a couple of causes for concern.
The one thing I lack is a good AP from right around 1940, which would clarify this. I buy albums regularly but never got one with a circa early 1940 sig of him.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Attachment 63853

In another thread I posted the Teddy Williams I got through the mail years ago, wondering if they were authentic. Your bottom one there has the same interconnected "dW" as mine do. The plot thickens...

Those three are painfully fake.

[GrayGhost]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

Those three are painfully fake.

Sadly, I agree on that.

Ted's auto varied so much. Most of those others have a lot of good qualities, but I'll defer overall, due to their variances.

GPC's could still be secretarial, esp of a player like Ted, who got sooo many requests, for sure. not saying that one is, or isn't, and those others have similar "W", so thats more of a shot that its good.

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Your bottom one there has the same interconnected "dW" as mine do. The plot thickens...

His doesn't interconnect like yours, they are just written over each other.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Bilko G

His doesn't interconnect like yours, they are just written over each other.

Huh?? What am I missing?

Screen Shot 2012-05-19 at 11.44.04 PM.jpg

[bender07]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Huh?? What am I missing?

Attachment 64010

Yours aren't even close unfortunately.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by bender07

Yours aren't even close unfortunately.

He clearly said, "His doesn't interconnect like yours, they are just written over each other." Yet that is blatantly untrue. Does anybody tell the truth in these forums...ever???

[bigtrain]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

this was mine and i sold it to the OP. i don't see alot of vintage williams to compare it to but i thought the "W" is good. the only things out of the norm to me were the "d" and the "am", but i'm far from a williams expert. the seller i bought it from assured me it'd pass psa/dna or jsa and i offer the same guarantee. hell if richard would opine his thought i'd also take it.

the buyer never expressed to me he had doubt about the auto (he's probably just looking for opionions) but like i said i'd take it back no problem.

also it's a gpc...don't know williams' habit but lots of players date their sigs. the coa is from legends are forever if anybody is familiar with them?

"Legends Are Forever" is a shop on Main Street in Cooperstown. I cannot vouch for their expertise. Most shops there do not sell a lot of vintage stuff.

[JimStinson]

Yea Rich , Only took 5 years but finally listened. I'm usually a decade or two behind the curve

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

"Legends Are Forever" is a shop on Main Street in Cooperstown. I cannot vouch for their expertise. Most shops there do not sell a lot of vintage stuff.

fighting with them to get a refund as they only accept the opinions of psa/dna or jsa, not richard simon and jim stinson...barf. will probably have ebay make a ruling as the psa/dna fee is probably more than the gpc itself (unless they wanna pay for it).

also welcome aboard jim looking forward to buying stuff from you.