Could PSA really authentic this ball?

[RichardSimon]

That's two balls into the cornfield today.

[travrosty]

They want the collecting public to do their job for them, and the authentication company's job, they should be embarassed, and these items will keep getting pointed out until they stop doing this.

Like someone says, these items are like a whac-a-mole, you point one out and another one pops up.

Richard, you will never get your account back, it would require an admission on their part, and then don't think they are doing anything wrong.

so did psa give these two items a pre-certification or not? They said they did.

[Leon]

I need to preface this by stating the obvious that Heritage is an advertiser here and I do consider most of their Sports group to be good hobby friends. Actually, several I would consider very good hobby friends, Chris Ivy included.

Now that being said I can honestly say that I feel Chris and Heritage are as honest as the day is long. There is 0 doubt in my mind they will stand behind whatever they do. With thousands and thousands of items auctioned each year they are bound to make a few mistakes. I am sure those few mistakes are handled professionally and swiftly. I believe some Heritage guys probably do read this board every day, along with several thousand other people. If something is pointed out on the board I am sure they usually look into it. Chris is a smart guy and I would expect no less. I can't say I agree with Chris on every single thing but I would trust him and his company 100%. He has some of the best hobbyists in the industry on staff too. If two baseballs got pulled then I think that is a good thing, if they were iffy or outright not good. Heritage Auctions is a great company and I am proud to have them as a sponsor/advertiser on the site. I look forward to bidding in their future auctions.

[travrosty]

Then why don't they explain what is going on? This isn't a mistake, they know what they are doing. These weekly internet auctions have these 'precerts when there are not precerts' being listed constantly, then they take bids and mysteriously some of the auctions disappear, maybe when psa actually gets around to looking at the items. The bids are cancelled.

How would you like to bid on something that says PSA precertification and then POOF! Your bid is cancelled because they decided they might want to get around to authenticating it now.

I CAN'T bid in their future auctions, and neither can Richard because we have the gall to point out this glaring problem that they can't fix or explain what is going on?

How did these two items that were allowed to take bids get precerts from PSA?

We saw the same live-bid-items with auction loa's previously, namely an operation bullpen Muhammad Ali glove, and two operation bullpen Muhammad Ali autographed Ali/Chamberlain posters, plus I have seen numerous others, a horrible Manny Pacquiao glove, along with some other boxing items, they had JSA auction LOA's, or did they?

If they knew they were listing precerts or auction LOA's for live items and taking bids 7 MONTHS AGO when I pointed them out, and they are still doing it, would they care to explain why - when all they have said in the past is that it was a preview item that was not for sale and would never see a live sale so no big deal?

These items are getting bids, and they say precertification from PSA/DNA. Is that the truth or not? How about PSA explaining if they think it's okay that their precertification is listed with these items?

I don't get why there are sacred cows that can't be questioned without the person bringing it up being the bad guy, bidding account cancelled, suspended and banned?

It's important that Chris Ivy explain why he said that preview items that weren't receiving bids were the only items that had this designation of auction loa or precerts when it is clear that items up for bid seem to have this same affliction. Why can't he admit it that items up for bid have this same problem?

Would admitting it be the same as saying that the article on deadspin was hitiing too close to home, that they offer items up for bid with this same designation of precerts when there really isn't precerts.

All the collectors want is answers. We have none.

[RichardSimon]

wrong forum - I was working in the buy-sell-trade forum and posted a FS item here.

[travrosty]

I know of at least 5 people who had their accounts suspended over this.

So why is that so if it is heritage's mistake?

I saw on another thread over in the card forum, that some members thought that an auction house shouldnt have it's other entity bid on cards on its own auctions, and the owner agreed, and said they wouldn't do that anymore,

But i never heard of people getting their bidding accounts suspended for bringing it up.

Why the payback? 7 months ago I asked them why they put up these auction loa's and precerts before the authentication companies looked at the items, and they told me to mind my own business, that it was no big deal.

Then they had 7 months to fix the problem, and they didn't, because they didn't believe it was a problem, until the publicity got too big, and it blew up in their faces.

All of the sudden they are acting like this is some new problem they hadn't heard of before, and please bear with us as the IT guys need time to write up a computer program.

Well, Mr. Ivy, you had 7 months. Isn't that long enough to write up this monster code of a program that must rival NASA's launch codes in complexity evidently?

They have two guys there that are in the authentication business. One guy is on the staff at JSA. He can't browse an internet auction over once in a while and pick out a few items that everyone here seems to be able to see a mile away? If they didn't put PSA precertification or JSA auction LOA, then it wouldn't be as egregious, it would just make them look foolish to throw up an item like that that they would just pull down later.

But to put up precertification or auction LOA designations when it doesn't have one is saying something that isn't so. People bidding need to be able to trust the auction house that their descriptions and authentication designations are true, and not some product of convenience because a computer program seems to be beyond their financial or technological reach.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by travrosty

Then why don't they explain what is going on? This isn't a mistake, they know what they are doing. These weekly internet auctions have these 'precerts when there are not precerts' being listed constantly, then they take bids and mysteriously some of the auctions disappear, maybe when psa actually gets around to looking at the items. The bids are cancelled.

How would you like to bid on something that says PSA precertification and then POOF! Your bid is cancelled because they decided they might want to get around to authenticating it now.

I CAN'T bid in their future auctions, and neither can Richard because we have the gall to point out this glaring problem that they can't fix or explain what is going on?

How did these two items that were allowed to take bids get precerts from PSA?

We saw the same live-bid-items with auction loa's previously, namely an operation bullpen Muhammad Ali glove, and two operation bullpen Muhammad Ali autographed Ali/Chamberlain posters, plus I have seen numerous others, a horrible Manny Pacquiao glove, along with some other boxing items, they had JSA auction LOA's, or did they?

If they knew they were listing precerts or auction LOA's for live items and taking bids 7 MONTHS AGO when I pointed them out, and they are still doing it, would they care to explain why - when all they have said in the past is that it was a preview item that was not for sale and would never see a live sale so no big deal?

These items are getting bids, and they say precertification from PSA/DNA. Is that the truth or not? How about PSA explaining if they think it's okay that their precertification is listed with these items?

I don't get why there are sacred cows that can't be questioned without the person bringing it up being the bad guy, bidding account cancelled, suspended and banned?

It's important that Chris Ivy explain why he said that preview items that weren't receiving bids were the only items that had this designation of auction loa or precerts when it is clear that items up for bid seem to have this same affliction. Why can't he admit it that items up for bid have this same problem?

Would admitting it be the same as saying that the article on deadspin was hitiing too close to home, that they offer items up for bid with this same designation of precerts when there really isn't precerts.

All the collectors want is answers. We have none.

I've worked for a California Casino for 25 years now and I can't tell you how many times I've had irate customers acussing us of cheating them out of their $120 as "it's impossible to lose six hands in a row!" I always ask the question "why would a company that does a few hundred million a year in business cheat you out of $120?"

Heritage Auctions did over $700 MILLION last year! Does anyone really think that they would knowingly try and scam ANY of their customers out of a $100 baseball? Or even a $10,000 Baseball for that matter! SEVEN HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS.

It seems to me that they may have a problem with the employee/s that heads their internet sports auctions. But to continue to bash them over and over again has gotten very, very, old.

I've never bid in a Heritage auction nor have I met any of their employees, but I would believe what Leon says of Chris Ivy and Heritage... "There is 0 doubt in my mind they will stand behind whatever they do."

[travrosty]

they knew about this problem for over 7 months and did nothing.

They don't think it is a problem, and THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

who cares how much they sell? so if they sell a lot they can get away with it?
that's not an excuse.

my whole point all this time is that it is wrong for them to do that. they don't think it is wrong. You must not think it is wrong to say something that isn't so. but i do.

If it is wrong, then fix it.

because they did so much in sales, that is precisely the point, they think anybody that brings something up like this is small potatoes so lets just ignore it. only when it hit haulsofshame and deadspin and was tagged by usa today did it get big enough for this 700 million dollar company to take notice and decide they might want to do something about it?

It's real hard to get huge companies to respond to legitimate concerns, for just that reason. they think they are too big to fail, so when i initially brought it up, you should have seen the condescending email i got. basically telling me i know nothing about how auction houses work and i should just go away.

I might not know how big auction houses work, but i know how they should work.

i will let heritage respond now. i am sure their defense for this practice is forthcoming.

it's not just preview items, its item taking live bids. why is that hard to understand that it isn't right to put an authentication tag on an item if it doesnt have it yet?

this isnt a new problem that is a simple mistake. They knew about it for months and did nothing.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by travrosty

who cares how much they sell? so if they sell a lot they can get away with it?

Get away with what?

Well, my issue was not to point out how much money they make, but to point how much they would risk losing if they were in the business of defrauding people for a few hundred dollars.

Now, I'm not naive at all about corporate greed in America, and we all know that there are examples of filthy rich companies in every field committing fraud, especially in Wall Street, but I just don't believe this is the case here.

Nor do I believe that the motives of the accusers in these types of threads, are to save the collecting public from the greedy big auction houses and/or TPA's. In my opinion, their motives are self-serving, and I for one, am insulted with their non-stop barrage of propaganda and exaggerated analaogies. Jimmy Catanzaro

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

I've worked for a California Casino for 25 years now and I can't tell you how many times I've had irate customers acussing us of cheating them out of their $120 as "it's impossible to lose six hands in a row!" I always ask the question "why would a company that does a few hundred million a year in business cheat you out of $120?"

Heritage Auctions did over $700 MILLION last year! Does anyone really think that they would knowingly try and scam ANY of their customers out of a $100 baseball? Or even a $10,000 Baseball for that matter! SEVEN HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS.

It seems to me that they may have a problem with the employee/s that heads their internet sports auctions. But to continue to bash them over and over again has gotten very, very, old.

I've never bid in a Heritage auction nor have I met any of their employees, but I would believe what Leon says of Chris Ivy and Heritage... "There is 0 doubt in my mind they will stand behind whatever they do."

Just to clarify a bit here,, assuming they did do $700 million, that is the entire company, not the sports memorabilia division. And that figure is probably the gross total sales of all their auctions, not their auction cut, not their net. Am I right King?
And I have never bid in a Heritage auction either and apparently will never be able to now.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Just to clarify a bit here,, assuming they did do $700 million, that is the entire company, not the sports memorabilia division. And that figure is probably the gross total sales of all their auctions, not their auction cut, not their net. Am I right King?
And I have never bid in a Heritage auction either and apparently will never be able to now.

The 700 million is the gross sales for the whole company. My guess is their take would be 25%-30% of that. Heritage is the very least of our problems in the hobby. I am not saying not to "out" issues with ANY situation. I am in agreement, though the constant rhetoric towards them gets old. How about going after some of the bad guys? If you are an autograph collector and want new people coming into the hobby then this side of the board is failing miserably. I can almost assure everyone that anyone reading all of these comments about autographs are LESS likely than more likely to start collecting them. So for that, we all thank the folks who constantly point all the bad stuff because you are saving us from the inevitable headaches. At least on the card side there is a lot of good stuff too.