barry halper forgeries

[Hankphenom]

It would be interesting to know who did "authenticate" the proven bogus items sold or auctioned from the Halper collection, and if anything at all got bounced by the experts and consultants (wasn't Rob Lifson the main guy?) retained for the project? In other words, did any of the hobby heavyweights getting paid for their participation raise any red flags about the apparently vast number of questionable items they must have seen coming out of the collection?

[benjulmag]

Putting aside the hypocrisy of the person alleging the improprieties, as to the letter press copy (not the original but the era's "carbon copy") with the Hawaiian archives stamp that was purportedly stolen from the Archives, if memory serves me correctly, I think it should be mentioned that the letter was sold by Anne Cartwright, widow of William Cartwright, Alexander Cartwright's great-grandson, to the auction house that auctioned it to the person who later transacted it to Halper. Assuming this is true, then if I had to choose between the letter being stolen, or deaccessioned and returned to its original owner, I would say the latter is more likely. As to the original Knickerbocker baseball referred to in the article, from the perspective of one who was discussing same with Anne Cartwright at the time Halper purchased it, while I had questions whether it was a Knickerbocker baseball, I had no doubt Halper thought it was at the time he purchased it.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

It would be interesting to know who did "authenticate" the proven bogus items sold or auctioned from the Halper collection, and if anything at all got bounced by the experts and consultants (wasn't Rob Lifson the main guy?) retained for the project? In other words, did any of the hobby heavyweights getting paid for their participation raise any red flags about the apparently vast number of questionable items they must have seen coming out of the collection?

I looked briefly at The Halper catalog and it only lists the authenticator for uniforms.
That authenticator is Grey Flannel.
No authenticator is listed for autographs, no grader for cards, unless I missed that listing somewhere.

[Piedmont Sport]

Real concerns are much larger then just a few items passed thru auction houses ,,,,,,,,,,,,, I have owned and sold autographs and baseballs from the Halper estate all certed by PSA and JSA ---- My guess is that if it came from Halper ,,,, major companies would assume it's good. That was then ,,, now the reverse is true - it must be bad - for all the right reasons. Our hobby is smeared by BAD Auction Houses ,,, and no accountability ,,,,,,,,, It's now down to 2 companies PSA and JSA which becomes a HUGE issue because customers are buying the cert and not the autograph. You can disagree but i do so many conventions dealer and client are saying the same thing. We are now in a pissing contest between both companies - and as a seller i'm sick of it all ,, so you can imagine how the buyer must feel. Marketing has made us all accept PSA and JSA along with any other company ,,,, making us think it's REAL. Yet everyday another story uncovers more fraud and mistakes ,,,, Our hobby would be served by regulations and certifactions along with education. MAKE THE COMPANY ISSUING THE CERT RESPONSABLE FOR ERRORS AND WE MAY SEE LESS OF THEM.

[RichardSimon]

delete

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Piedmont Sport

Real concerns are much larger then just a few items passed thru auction houses ,,,,,,,,,,,,, I have owned and sold autographs and baseballs from the Halper estate all certed by PSA and JSA ---- My guess is that if it came from Halper ,,,, major companies would assume it's good. That was then ,,, now the reverse is true - it must be bad - for all the right reasons. Our hobby is smeared by BAD Auction Houses ,,, and no accountability ,,,,,,,,, It's now down to 2 companies PSA and JSA which becomes a HUGE issue because customers are buying the cert and not the autograph. You can disagree but i do so many conventions dealer and client are saying the same thing. We are now in a pissing contest between both companies - and as a seller i'm sick of it all ,, so you can imagine how the buyer must feel. Marketing has made us all accept PSA and JSA along with any other company ,,,, making us think it's REAL. Yet everyday another story uncovers more fraud and mistakes ,,,, Our hobby would be served by regulations and certifactions along with education. MAKE THE COMPANY ISSUING THE CERT RESPONSABLE FOR ERRORS AND WE MAY SEE LESS OF THEM.

Well said Frank,, "marketing, sick of it all, dealers and clients saying the same thing, more fraud and mistakes",,, I for one would never use those companies in my business, but others do, including you.

[Piedmont Sport]

You are correct Richard ,,, I use them because it's public demand - and ebay demand ....... BUT ,,,,,, we are slowing moving away from those companies. And David you are so on target with your thoughts ,,,,, Halper's Stuff is all over the Place and should not be compared to coaches corner ,,,,, Thier so F'd up only a fool would purchase from them. Let's give credit to all those who are searching to do the right thing ,,,,, spend the time and effort for the good of the hobby rather then make 3rd party companies rich. ---- STAMP OUT AUCTIONS ,,, would really like to know the background of most of these people.

[horzverti]

I guess the General George Washington c. 1778 rookie Superbas jersey I bought from Halper is fake too. I should have known by the Majestic label sewn at the bottom. LOL!
I like the reference to Halper as the "Madoff of Memoribilia" line at the end of the article.
I never met Barry, but unfortunately I know a few like him. Good thing is that I know hundreds of us that aren't like him.

[murphusa]

Does anyone know that coaches corner also has a wholesale operation. They sell to smaller mall type stores, antique shop and the sort.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Piedmont Sport

You are correct Richard ,,, I use them because it's public demand - and ebay demand ....... BUT ,,,,,, we are slowing moving away from those companies. And David you are so on target with your thoughts ,,,,, Halper's Stuff is all over the Place and should not be compared to coaches corner ,,,,, Thier so F'd up only a fool would purchase from them. Let's give credit to all those who are searching to do the right thing ,,,,, spend the time and effort for the good of the hobby rather then make 3rd party companies rich. ---- STAMP OUT AUCTIONS ,,, would really like to know the background of most of these people.

Ebay does not demand that you use those authenticators, you know that.
It is solely an ebay RECOMMENDATION.
But it does seem that since you are so openly critical of them and the tactics they have used to gain the niche in the market that they have, that you would stand by the words that you posted here and stop using them.
You do not need a third party COA to sell an autograph on ebay.
As I state clearly in my ebay ads, I guarantee and authenticate my own items.
State that in your ebay ads and you will not be breaking any ebay rules.

[Piedmont Sport]

At that point Richard we need to shut down all 3rd party authentication - because someone we always find another person to disagree - we as a company do offer 100% return policy and we have a form completed by our atty. that each buyer agrees to sign and notarized on the spot ,,,,, and it's insured by Marsh & Mclands - I wonder how many other dealers offer that return policy. I can't tell you how many items that are rejected and re-submitted that once failed and now passed. It's a shame ,,, this bullshit goes back many years ,,,,, and auction houses are a real source to hide bullshit. Every dealer I know struggles with all these issues ,, we need to stay in biz and the rules are PSA or JSA ,,,,,, At the National thier booths will be none stop busy.

[Hankphenom]

Wow--nobody vouching for this stuff, other than the reputations of the names associated with the auction (Sothebys, Lifson, anybody else?)? Except for the uniforms (Grey Flannel), which seems to be the most problematic area of the collection. How's that for irony? And who passed the unis for Grey Flannel? This was the dawn of the "authentication era," I guess, and everybody was lulled by the Halper name and legend. There must be a lot of second looks being taken now.

[prewarsports]

Sal Bando must have been involved somehow!

Uniforms aside (and there were questions about most of those at the time which is why they went so cheap) I bet 99.9% of the rest of the items were all ok and I bet the overall amount of fraudulent items in the Halper estate were on par or maybe even better than what Major Auctions get now (before scrutiny and authentication), we just have the benefit of modern technology.

[Hankphenom]

Uniforms aside (and there were questions about most of those at the time which is why they went so cheap) I bet 99.9% of the rest of the items were all ok and I bet the overall amount of fraudulent items in the Halper estate were on par or maybe even better than what Major Auctions get now (before scrutiny and authentication), we just have the benefit of modern technology.[/QUOTE]

Good points all.

[David Atkatz]

I think the crucial point here is that, no matter how you look at it, Halper was a sleaze.

[slidekellyslide]

Since that auction guys like Dave Grob, Troy Kinunen, Dave Bushing and others put a tremendous amount of work into documenting uniforms...and I'm sure back then Barry Halper's word was gold in the memorabilia industry...afterall he pretty much started the memorabilia industry so I can understand Grey Flannel passing those uniforms...at the time the work just hadn't been done yet concerning photo matching, documentation of what team was wearing what companies uniforms, et cetera.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

Sal Bando must have been involved somehow!

Uniforms aside (and there were questions about most of those at the time which is why they went so cheap) I bet 99.9% of the rest of the items were all ok and I bet the overall amount of fraudulent items in the Halper estate were on par or maybe even better than what Major Auctions get now (before scrutiny and authentication), we just have the benefit of modern technology.

I completely agree with this statement. The early Uniforms' credibility issues speak for themselves. But the vast majority of other items in this auction were unquestionably good (Trophies, Statues, Pennants, Broadsides, Posters, Photos, Gloves, Equipment, Jewelry, Fans, Scorers, Programs, Sheet Music, and on and on...)

I would believe that less than 1% of the total items sold were bad or misrepresented. Granted, there were some landmark pieces with some disturbing intent to deceive (which should not be forgiven).

But just because an item came from the Halper sale doesn't make it bad. To Rhys' point, the odds of an item being bad from the Halper sale are no different than any other auction (and probably preferential to ebay).

Also... the question came up about authentication. It may not be stated, but I had heard numerous times that Mike Gutierrez was the authenticator for most of the autographed items (fwiw).

[GrayGhost]

so sad. I recall the auction catalogue and the video w Billy Martin. Sooo very sad indeed.

[tinkereversandme]

Let me tell you what I think is sad. What's sad is that Halper has been long gone and Nash continues to plant the same story/stories everywhere. How about at one point, Mr. Nash put as much effort in exposing Mr. Halper into perhaps exposing Coach's or their authenticators. After all, he loves pre-war baseball and he knows how rare those signatures are and shouldn't he be just as outraged with the endless supply of Mike Kelly's and Ed Plank's and Tim Keefe's and Dan Brouthers' that this fine company spits out every month. Mr. Nash, did you see that bat that John Clarkson signed and dated 1885 that didn't even fetch a grand a while back? Go to www.myccsa.com and let's put our focus there.

Let's see how we can plug the hole now...what's done is/was done and can we please stop what's going on now!

Regards,

Larry