Goodwin Auction is open + Peck & Snyder Discussion

[iwantitiwinit]

I love that Plank card. Is it just me or does it seem like the frequency of the Plank offerings are even less than the Wagner's. Anyone want to guess what that card goes for? I say $129,000.

[ksfarmboy]

Does anyone else disagree with this being Fred Clarke? Sure doesn't look anything like him to me. If this isn't Clarke has anyone seen a Fred Clarke Hermes Pin?

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...in-Fred-Clarke

Clint Hromek

[Matt]

Originally Posted by ksfarmboy

Does anyone else disagree with this being Fred Clarke? Sure doesn't look anything like him to me. If this isn't Clarke has anyone seen a Fred Clarke Hermes Pin?

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...in-Fred-Clarke

Clint Hromek

Clint - see here fro a related discussion:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=111717

[oldjudge]

Corey--That's an interesting theory, and may be dead on. Is there any hard evidence to date the Cincinnati cards? You have been doing this a lot longer than I have, and I don't claim to be an expert on these. However, I have had a few blacks and a few reds, including both backs, and mine have had very consistent photo quality across all types. Maybe I was just lucky.

[barrysloate]

Jay- Corey and I have had numerous discussions about the Cincinnati P & S and I agree with all of his points. We are certain that the Jim Creighton was the first one issued although we have no agreement on the date. The Cincinnati one was next and it was extremely popular, so it's not surprising that it would have been reissued. The two different ads on the reverse of the black ones reflect the changing of seasons and the different marketing the store needed to do.

The color mounts seem to have been introduced in 1870, and no question the Cincinnati team was still very popular, so it likely would have still been issued as late as 1870. Assuming the same negative was being used, the quality of the photograph would have been compromised by this time. The Reds winning streak didn't end until June of 1870, and which point the popularity of the club waned. And likewise, the run of Cincinnati trade cards issued by the company also ended.

There really isn't a lot of documentation about this but it appears to make sense.

[E93]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

I love that Plank card. Is it just me or does it seem like the frequency of the Plank offerings are even less than the Wagner's. Anyone want to guess what that card goes for? I say $129,000.

I think the frequency of Planks and Wagners goes in waves. REA had three Planks in their auction last May. From my experience over the long haul they pop up with about equal frequency though for a couple years it may seem like more Wagners, then for a couple years it seems like more Planks.
As for final hammer, I think you are in the ballpark. Could be a little more. I doubt it will go for much less than that.
JimB

[barrysloate]

Jim- can you actually recall a time when more Wagners were auctioned than Planks? I can't. I think Planks show up more frequently.

[E93]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Jim- can you actually recall a time when more Wagners were auctioned than Planks? I can't. I think Planks show up more frequently.

Barry,
You may be right. I have a vague recollection that about 8-10 years ago that almost no Planks came up for two or three years while one or two Wagners were coming each year. But my memory is not great. I have certainly never seen an auction with three Wagners in it! Didn't REA even have four Planks one time?
JimB

[E93]

I have been thinking more about the number of Wagners out there. REA estimates roughly 50 in the latest auction write-up. That number makes sense. That means if roughly two are sold every year, that on average the average Wagner stays in its temporary home for about 25 years.

Also, since people like Rob Lifson have been following new finds since the late '60's or early '70's when there were less than 10 known, I would think he would be in a good position to make a reasonably accurate estimate.

I know some estimates are as high as 80-100, but those numbers always seemed high to me. I just think they would be seen much more frequently if the number was that high. If there were a hundred and two a year are publicly traded, then the average owner would hold their copy for 50 years! That seems very high on average.
JimB

[oldjudge]

Jim--I think there are several people with multiple Wagners and those will come out as groups. Call me skeptical, but I'd bet the number of Wagners that exist is closer to 100 than it is to 50.

Barry-The fact that you and Corey agree certainly means that the theory makes sense. I was just wondering if there was anything beyond a theory.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Jim--I think there are several people with multiple Wagners and those will come out as groups. Call me skeptical, but I'd bet the number of Wagners that exist is closer to 100 than it is to 50.

From the little I know about tracking Wagners, and me seeing about 40 different at one time, per the Net54 dinner a few years ago, I have to believe there is close to 100 Wagners in the hobby. With what I have seen I will not be convinced otherwise. I usually think of there being as much that I "haven't" seen as much as I "have" seen however the internet has evened out much of the experience on seeing cards. That being said, with the popularity of the Wags, the price wouldn't go down whether there is 20 or 150. The demand is huge....

[barrysloate]

I believe REA had five Planks a couple of years ago, and three last year. Has there ever been an auction with more than one Wagner?

[GaryPassamonte]

Barry or Corey,
Wouldn't the Atlantics or possibly the Lowells have been issued before Cincinnati? Their heyday was prior to Cincinnati. Also, isn't there also an Olympics version that was advertised by P&S that has never been found?