My thoughts on these stupid grading posts

[kkkkandp]

Since my main focus is on Old Judge cards (where getting a grade above GOOD is a monumental accomplishment 90% of the time), my reply may not translate as well to other issues, but I think it is generally true.

I said this just the other day to someone - because there does tend to be so much criticism of the service they provide, the card grading industry should consider remarketing itself. Perhaps they should establish a set of realistic and practical universal standards, but I'll say later why even that won't help.

First and foremost, these things we collect are picture cards. To not take the picture quality into consideration in the grade is ludicrous. We have all seen Old Judge cards where the image looks as if it was taken in a London fog, but the card has graded EXCELLENT. Sorry, that's just wrong.

The back is pristinely clean. So what? It's blank. Other issues do have writing on the reverse, some more important (statistics, in my opinion) than others. Back and variation collectors will likely disagree, but I buy the card pretty much for the picture alone.

But cards are graded on technicalities. Expanding the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" concept to that grading work is exactly why card grading will continue to be received with derision. Even with universal standards, will every grader see the same corner rounding or the same dirt smudges in the same way?

I would be very satisfied with a service that marketed itself simply as:

(1) Being able to tell with 100% certainty that the card had not been altered in any way;
(2) Providing a holder that enhanced the presentation and protected the card.

After that, I'll decide how perfectly beautiful it is.

[barrysloate]

I'm with you all the way Kevin, but I doubt it will ever change.

[RichR]

Totally agree.

[T206Collector]

This post is ironically already spawning another dialogue about the importance of grading to the hobby, which I'm pretty sure was not the intent of the original poster.

Moreover, the sentiment exprssed in this post was already expressed by a number of folks in the recent grading threads. Not sure why it deserved its own thread.

Finally, keep in mind that this is a board about shared experiences in the hobby, of which grading is a meaningful part. If you excluded it from the discussion, you'd winnow down some amount of productive and useful conversation.

Now back to your rodent sex.

[HRBAKER]

I can certainly see from the title of the posts in question how someone could not have known they were about grading and ended up wasting their time (sarcasm).

The board is not the same thing to every poster or reader nor should it be.

I don't give a rat's a** about grading one way or the other but if people think there is merit in discussing it, so be it.

[jmk59]

Grading is a significant part of the hobby, and threads that productively discuss the idiosyncrasies and possible improvements are relevant to the hobby and the board. But we all know grading is partially subjective. We all know it's imperfect. So I definitely agree 100% with the OP that we really shouldn't have to hear about every individual person's negative experience with these known issues as if it's the biggest surprise and injustice ever.

And somewhere, Joe P may have rose himself up long enough to applaud this thread!

J

[Rich Klein]

Or Frank:

Hey, there are many positives to grading -- having said that, as we saw, when you lose several thousand dollars (although it was your own mistake) many people need to vent a bit. That's what occured.

And as for Kevin, who wants to know that his cards are authentic without a grade, it is real simple, just request the "A" for every card you submit and don't ask for a number grade.

Regards
Rich

[kkkkandp]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

And as for Kevin, who wants to know that his cards are authentic without a grade, it is real simple, just request the "A" for every card you submit and don't ask for a number grade.

Rich:

I'm not sure even that works correctly 100% of the time.

I never cared enough about grading to delve into the specific reasons why cards get the grade they do. I think I have read in several posts on the board (although I do not believe the posts were by anyone from one of the grading services) that cards are often graded as AUTHENTIC simply because they do not meet the minimum published dimensional requirements. If that is the case, you could get an AUTHENTIC grade on a card that actually deserved a numeric one because while it was "short" it was short due to a period cut, not a recent one.

Maybe Brian Dwyer could chime in on that.

Kevin

[Jim VB]

I've stayed out of these threads, for the most part, because any discussion we have is not likely to have any impact. But this is from the Net54 FAQ & Rules (Emphasis is mine.):



What Can I Post About?
This forum was established to talk about Pre-WWII Baseball cards. Subjects "related" to Pre-WWII baseball cards can be discussed also. Occasional off topic subjects will be permitted by board participants only. Off topic posts are reserved for every day participants only. The participants involvement in the board determines the leniency in frequency of off topic posts. In other words the more you participate the more leniency you will receive in discussing off-topic material. This is still a Pre-WWII baseball card chat board and we will always try keep it's focus. Early baseball memorabilia and photographs are some of the permitted off topic's. Others are permitted too as long as you are a frequent board participant and they are only occasional.

Things you can not post about

Personal information about people including but not limited to: Phone numbers, addresses, email addresses, etc, unless given permission ...Personal emails should not be posted on the board. Bickering between participants on the board is expected. As long as it doesn't get too bad it will be let go. Too much fighting is not good and will be censored. Personal attacks will not be allowed. Name calling will not be allowed (unless it's real funny ) (Just kidding.) Those exchanges can be taken off line and will be asked to do so. Politics and religion are also not permitted on the board and posts concerning this subject matter will be deleted. Off topic posts are permitted only for regular contributors to the main forum. All cards should be discussed in their appropriate areas on the forum. Memorabilia including photos, autographs, baseball etc.. should go in the memorabilia forum. We also ask that members do not "hijack" the threads of other members as this does a disservice to those interested in that particular subject matter and is especially discourteous to the original author of that thread.

Also, to be absolutely clear, this is not a complaint board about grading, graders or grudges. If your first post on the forum is negative, it will likely be deleted. Trolls are not tolerated and they will be banned.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by kkkkandp

Since my main focus is on Old Judge cards (where getting a grade above GOOD is a monumental accomplishment 90% of the time), my reply may not translate as well to other issues, but I think it is generally true.

I said this just the other day to someone - because there does tend to be so much criticism of the service they provide, the card grading industry should consider remarketing itself. Perhaps they should establish a set of realistic and practical universal standards, but I'll say later why even that won't help.

First and foremost, these things we collect are picture cards. To not take the picture quality into consideration in the grade is ludicrous. We have all seen Old Judge cards where the image looks as if it was taken in a London fog, but the card has graded EXCELLENT. Sorry, that's just wrong.

The back is pristinely clean. So what? It's blank. Other issues do have writing on the reverse, some more important (statistics, in my opinion) than others. Back and variation collectors will likely disagree, but I buy the card pretty much for the picture alone.

But cards are graded on technicalities. Expanding the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" concept to that grading work is exactly why card grading will continue to be received with derision. Even with universal standards, will every grader see the same corner rounding or the same dirt smudges in the same way?

I would be very satisfied with a service that marketed itself simply as:

(1) Being able to tell with 100% certainty that the card had not been altered in any way;
(2) Providing a holder that enhanced the presentation and protected the card.

After that, I'll decide how perfectly beautiful it is.

This is easily one of the best post I have ever read, on this, or any board. Bravo Kevin, bravo.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by kkkkandp

I would be very satisfied with a service that marketed itself simply as:

(1) Being able to tell with 100% certainty that the card had not been altered in any way;
(2) Providing a holder that enhanced the presentation and protected the card.

After that, I'll decide how perfectly beautiful it is.

+1