My thoughts on these stupid grading posts

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Bicem

The exact same card in a 5 holder is worth more than it is in a 4 holder really seems odd to me, it’s the same card!

While I agree with the sentiment, for me the difference between a 4 and a 5 often means there is a hairline crease in the 4. When I was collecting high(ish) grade T206 cards, I drew my line between 4 and 5 for this reason. So, I stayed away from 4s as a general matter.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

While I agree with the sentiment, for me the difference between a 4 and a 5 often means there is a hairline crease in the 4. When I was collecting high(ish) grade T206 cards, I drew my line between 4 and 5 for this reason. So, I stayed away from 4s as a general matter.

I think you missed the point here. It's the EXACT same card, resubmitted....now worth more, or less, because of a number. I sort of agree that doesn't make sense but also understand why it does command more in value. Personally, the # grading game isn't for me but if others like it who am I to spoil their party? Some people can't understand why I do what I do!!

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think you missed the point here. It's the EXACT same card, resubmitted....now worth more, or less, because of a number. I sort of agree that doesn't make sense but also understand why it does command more in value. Personally, the # grading game isn't for me but if others like it who am I to spoil their party? Some people can't understand why I do what I do!!

With all due respect -- the demand will go up for the same card if you first tell people there is a wrinkle in it and then you later tell people there is no wrinkle in it. That is how I often read SGC 50s and SGC 60s with respect to T206 cards.

[Bicem]

what Leon said.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Bicem

what Leon said.

What I said, again.

[T206Collector]

In addition, let's be clear about something. The creases that make an SGC 60 an SGC 50 do not show up in scans on ebay, where a huge amount of cards change hands. So, when you are purchasing 500 T206 cards on ebay over the course of a few years, and you want to be certain they don't have hidden wrinkles, you had better be buying SGC 60s. If you show me a PSA 4/SGC 50 that got bumped up/crossed over to an SGC 60, I will show you a card I am comfortable does not have any wrinkles in it and may now consider purchasing for more money than the PSA 4/SGC 50 was going to cost me, when I wasn't interested in it.

Same card, true, but some different assumptions now go into it with the higher SGC grade.

Here's a perfectly good example. I own this card. If I saw this on ebay, the only way I would know there is a wrinkle in it would be if the dealer told me in the listing (fat chance) or I understood how SGC graded its 50s. This card would be a 60 if it weren't for the "unscannable" wrinkle. If you popped this out and resubmitted it, the only way it gets to be an SGC 60 would be if this wrinkle didn't exist. In other words, the SGC 50 would have been an undergrade and the SGC 60 would be the appropriate grade -- and there would be a higher demand for it as a result.

I bought the Moeller below "in the raw" on ebay in 2000. The seller's listing promised the card had no creases, but it did. The next buyer of this card will now be full aware of its hidden defect -- a spider wrinkle on the left border -- because I had it graded by SGC and they gave it a 50 and not a 60.

From SGC Graded Cards

[Rob D.]

"If you popped this out and resubmitted it, the only way it gets to be an SGC 60 would be if this wrinkle didn't exist."

No, and you're making a big assumption here. It also could get to be an SGC 60 if the person grading that day missed the wrinkle. Which does happen, at all grading companies, and is also what causes a lot of frustration among collectors.

[Leon]

Now that I can type for a few minutes let me address this topic from a moderator/owner perspective. First of all if ANYONE else ran the board I am sure it would be different in some manner. Everyone has their own ideas on how it should go. Here are some of my thoughts.

Kenny Cole (hey Kenny), the original poster, is a good hobby friend and one of my most-liked lawyers on the board. I see about 99% the same way he does on most things. That being said I slightly disagree on the sentiment concerning this thread. Are there possibly too many of these types of threads? Maybe, maybe not. For better or worse there are few bigger topics in the hobby than grading. For that reason the number of threads pertaining to it is substantial.

My philosophy is, and has been from day 1, is to have as hands off of an approach as I can with regards to moderation. Now, I understand this is a private type chatboard and there really is no "freedom of speech" but I still like to think there is, and manage it that way. I do NOT believe it is my right to tell people what to post about, as long as it pertains to something in our hobby. I don't tell people what to say in their posts either. I feel people should be left to hang themselves if they so desire. In my opinion the worst thing I could do is be too strict in the moderating category. Do I like card related threads and talking about our cards and the hobby, more than anything on the board? Sure I do. But to expect it to be soley that way is unrealistic, again, imo. During some calls yesterday it was funny how the other folks knew where I would be on some issues. If nothing else I try to be consistent and I try to help the other mods in keeping that consistency. It is a very, very open forum as long as the rules are kept in mind. I will come down on folks who continually mess up or cause way too much commotion, but those are rare instances. Everyone that has been on the board for very long knows what is allowed and what is not...and there is a LOT of leniency given in most matters, especially to everyday posters. I have 0 tolerance for very much harsh profanity or talking about others' family members. As recently seen no topic is off limits even concerning advertisers. When the banners went up there were a few advertisers that felt they should be protected from criticisms on the board. Before I hung up on their calls they were no longer advertisers. Every banner advertiser now understands that their company, including B and L, is not off limits.

I feel that all of these beliefs ADD to the legitimacy of the board, right or wrong. We are adding around 60-75 new members a month for some reason...and it's not because of my good looks!! I sort of feel like a boxing referee in that I should be seen but not heard. The less moderating I have to do the happier I am and I feel the better the board is. I always appreciate constructive criticism and take it as such. regards

[barrysloate]

Perhaps Kenny was less concerned with discussions of grading in general, which affects all of us as collectors or dealers, and was aiming his criticism towards those with a personal issue that had nothing to do with anybody else other than themselves. Again, not to take away from the frustration of Bill and Dan, but these were unique situations.