A word of caution

[JP]

Christopher, wow, what a horror story! But one part of it I don't get...how could somebody have more than one Paypal account? I had to verify my address that's on my credit report, my SSN, and my bank account....it seems like it'd be impossible to get more than one account since the information would be the same.

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by JP

...how could somebody have more than one Paypal account?

I have two. My original used for all my transactions and then a second I set up when my mother passed away to sell some things that would allow my sisters access to the account.

Both accounts are in my name.

[kcohen]

The fact of the matter is that if you are buying a card or anything else, you are paying for something and not sending a gift. To do so to avoid the paypal fee is in my view fraudulent. You may not like paypal but if you use it, you should adhere to the fee structure.

[JP]

Wow, Tim. I've used paypal since their inception and never knew this. Now I can keep my two hobbies, baseball cards and money laundering, completely separate!

I had my account frozen recently when I had 200 eBay auctions al ending on the same day, but they lifted the restriction pretty quickly...six months wouldve been unbearable.

[JP]

Jim VB,

If your post above was directed towards me, you can send me a PM. As I've told you before, I cannot see the content of your posts. Whatever it was, I bet it wasn't flattery.

[Griffins]

you can often send paypal payment as an echeck. It will only cost the seller $5 no matter the amount, and in doing so you will avoid any fraudulent act while still protecting yourself. Karma and honesty has to be worth at least $5.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Griffins

Karma and honesty has to be worth at least $5.

$3.98 at Wal-Mart I always like to shop for the best deals..

[JP]

Call it fraudulent or a bending of the rules, but when you can transfer $1 million at a bank for a $30-45 wire fee, and paypal charges that same amount for a $1000-1500 transfer, then there should be a cap. The 3% fee I also don't mind paying when they are offering buyer or seller protection. But when a fellow board member and I have an agreement on a card, and we're not using their parent company eBay's services, and neither of us are offered any customer protectionir services other than the transfer of money, then I don't mind circumventing the system. eBay and Paypal have hiked up their fees, and as eBay sellers flee en masse, they continue to hike up fees to make up for it. Not good business.

[Chicago206]

"....but when you can transfer $1 million at a bank for a $30-45 wire fee, and paypal charges that same amount for a $1000-1500 transfer, then there should be a cap."


Excellent point!

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by JP

Call it fraudulent or a bending of the rules, but when you can transfer $1 million at a bank for a $30-45 wire fee, and paypal charges that same amount for a $1000-1500 transfer, then there should be a cap. The 3% fee I also don't mind paying when they are offering buyer or seller protection. But when a fellow board member and I have an agreement on a card, and we're not using their parent company eBay's services, and neither of us are offered any customer protectionir services other than the transfer of money, then I don't mind circumventing the system. eBay and Paypal have hiked up their fees, and as eBay sellers flee en masse, they continue to hike up fees to make up for it. Not good business.

If you don't like Paypal's fees and rules, don't use them. Apparently, you do like something about them, or you would simply wire money instead. You must find Paypal more convenient, or else you'd do business elsewhere.

Instead, you claim they have high rates and that justifies you stealing from them. If you go to the grocery and their prices are too high, does that justify shoplifting? Using your logic, it does.

I am glad that you have finally admitted, that given a certain set of circumstances, you are willing to be dishonest. It takes a big man to admit he's a crook.

Once a crook, always a crook.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by kcohen

The fact of the matter is that if you are buying a card or anything else, you are paying for something and not sending a gift. To do so to avoid the paypal fee is in my view fraudulent. You may not like paypal but if you use it, you should adhere to the fee structure.

This is exactly how I see it. To request to be paid by the "gift" option to avail yourself of paypal's services for free is not right IMO.

[bigtrain]

Using "gifting" to avoid Paypal fees is fraud. It is, in fact, "theft of services", potentially a felony depending on the size of the fee avoided. We can always justify our actions by telling ourselves that their fees are exorbitant or that they are a big corporation and won't miss the fee or that everyone else does it. That may well be true but it is no justification for dishonesty. They say that everyone cheats a little on their taxes. It is still illegal and I would never do such a thing (Are you listening IRS? Never, ever, ever. Really.) Ultimately, you have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror. I've had clients who could put a bullet in the back of your head and not lose a minute of sleep, but I think most of the folks here are basically honest people who know the difference between right and wrong. Morally, is scamming Paypal any different from scamming a fellow collector?

[JP]

If I stopped using Paypal, I'd also have to stop using eBay. I'm willing to circumvent a hole in their system to my advantage, and they in turn make plenty of money off of me. The alternative is that they make nothing at all... No guilt for me, as it appears is also the case with the large majority here, as almost every purchase I've made on BST has had the seller requesting the gift option. If it is the word "gift" that bothers you, you can also choose "payment owed" under the personal tab and do the same fee-less transaction. Buying and selling baseball cards is not a business for me at all...all ends up in cards, never cash.

Why is it that many people here feel they can throw stones? No one here has lied on an application, cheated on their taxes, stolen cable, downloaded movies or music, broken the speed limit, drank underage, or blown up a busfull of nuns? We're all human. We all have the right to draw whatever lines we are comfortable with. I have NEVER in my life been dishonest in any way, shape or form when dealing with an individual entity. To me that is far worse than taken advantage of a system a business has put in place...To each their own!

[JP]

Also of note...I did an echeck instead of the gift option on the $6700. I avoided fees in that scenario as well, abiding by ALL of Paypal's rules. From now on I'll all ask sellers to eat the 3% and see how many are willing to do that...

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by JP

No one here has lied on an application, cheated on their taxes, stolen cable, downloaded movies or music, broken the speed limit, drank underage, or blown up a busfull of nuns? We're all human. We all have the right to draw whatever lines we are comfortable with.

No one here has lied on an application - Never

cheated on their taxes, - Never

stolen cable - Never

downloaded movies or music - Never

broken the speed limit - Never (OK, maybe a few times)

or blown up a busfull of nuns - Never (But 12 years of Catholic Schools. The thought has crossed my mind.)

drank underage - Guilty (But not in close to 40 years.)

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by jp

we all have the right to draw whatever lines we are comfortable with.

lol!

[bigtrain]

Does a station wagon full of nuns count?

[wonkaticket]

Rear ended an mini-van full of midgets once does that count for like half credit or something?

[JP]

In retrospect, maybe not even worth continuing this argument....though I'm sure of my list I've probably done less of then than most anyone here. (haven't had as much fun as most) I'll officially ungracefully exit stage left. No point in trying to argue something that not anyone will ever completely agree upon...I'll try to use paypal echeck from now on so there will be no injured parties.

And, no, it must be AT LEAST a bus full of nuns...volkswagon buses don't count.

[FUBAR]

Originally Posted by JP

Why is it that many people here feel they can throw stones? No one here has lied on an application, cheated on their taxes, stolen cable, downloaded movies or music, broken the speed limit, drank underage, or blown up a busfull of nuns?

lied on an application- check
taxes- havent done this one, too scared too
stolen cable- i dont have a cable bill but have basic cable
movies and music... i plead the fifth but i have 20,000 mp3s and 700 dvds
broken the speed limit... only when i go down hill ;o)
drank underage or blown up nuns... does drinking underage and getting blown by nuns count? lol j/k it was only one nun!

[Griffins]

It was the Pinto that exploded on rear impact. Although a Subaru might also, will have to test the theory next time I see an Outback full on nuns.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Griffins

It was the Pinto that exploded on rear impact. Although a Subaru might also, will have to test the theory next time I see an Outback full on nuns.

My very first car was a 1971 Pinto. It had the gas tank that would blow up on impact. My brother totalled it when I was in bootcamp. Probably the best thing he ever did for me.