Dawson only inductee..........

[paul]

It's starting to look like Jack Morris will eventually make it. To me, that 3.90 era should keep him out. It would be the worst era in the hall. At least the current record holder (Red Ruffing) played in an extremely heavy hitting era.

[Anthony S.]

Dawson was a heck of alot more than an accumulator. He won one MVP and came in 2nd twice. That's a couple heartbeats away from 3 MVP's. He also had the most spectacular arm I've ever seen. I still remember a throw he made against the Giants at Candlestick back in the mid-80's. It was a rocket that never rose above 6 feet off the ground. And he played the first 11 years of his career in a gigantic mausoleum (Olympic Stadium), pre-juiced ball, pre-juiced players.

[Anthony S.]

And might I add, the only outfielders with more Gold Gloves lifetime than Dawson:

Clemente 12
Mays 12
Griffey 10
Jones 10
Kaline 10
T. Hunter 9
Ichiro 9

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

And might I add, the only outfielders with more Gold Gloves lifetime than Dawson:

Clemente 12
Mays 12
Griffey 10
Jones 10
Kaline 10
T. Hunter 9
Ichiro 9

I don't think Hunter or Andruw Jones are HOFers either. I believe there are fewer "automatic" milestones these days. Years back 500HR would make you a lock, but not anymore.

I think Dave Parker's career is very similar to Dawson's.

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

Dawson was a heck of alot more than an accumulator. He won one MVP and came in 2nd twice. That's a couple heartbeats away from 3 MVP's.

In that same respect Dale Murphy and Roger Maris won back to back MVPS and they most likely aren't getting in. No doubt Dawson was a tremendous player, but I just don't feel he belongs in the HOF.

[howard38]

Cy Young voting differs from MVP voting. For most of Blyleven's career Cy Young voters only chose their top three while MVP voters chose their top ten. This made a top five finish in Cy Young balloting significantly more difficult than a top five MVP finish.

[howard38]

Another reason he only made two all-star teams was that he was a better second half pitcher for most of his career.

First half: .555 W-L %, 3.44 ERA

Second Half: .517, 3.10

[Bobsbats]

I have read most of the replies to this thread and I can't understand where some people are coming from. The whole Alomar thing I don't get....very good player, yes....Hall of Famer..NO. How many people on this board have complained every year about who doesnt belong? It is the called the Hall of Fame, not the hall of pretty good. Players that hang on for 20 plus years and build up their stats don't belong either. A player who plays 20 years and has a .250 average has the ability to have 3000 hits. Does that make him a Hall of Famer? I dont think so... Like alot of things now, I think mediocre is looked upon as great and I dont believe it is....its mediocre.

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by Bobsbats

I have read most of the replies to this thread and I can't understand where some people are coming from. The whole Alomar thing I don't get....very good player, yes....Hall of Famer..NO. How many people on this board have complained every year about who doesnt belong? It is the called the Hall of Fame, not the hall of pretty good. Players that hang on for 20 plus years and build up their stats don't belong either. A player who plays 20 years and has a .250 average has the ability to have 3000 hits. Does that make him a Hall of Famer? I dont think so... Like alot of things now, I think mediocre is looked upon as great and I dont believe it is....its mediocre.

12x All-Star, 10 Gold Gloves, 300 Career AVG, Over 2,700 Hits, almost 500 SB, 2 World Series wins, 371 OBP, over 500 Doubles, I can go on....

How in the world is that not a Hall of Famer, Alomar wasn't just good, he was GREAT.

[familytoad]

Alomar is/was clearly a HOF in my book. I won't repeat the impressive stats from the last post...but c'mon...how many second basemen have ever compiled the all around speed, defense, extra base power numbers he has?Playing on a championship team usually helps everyone out too. Check.
This one is an easy pick.

But the whole first ballot thing is dumb. Maybe the writers are trying to use it as a delineator for past members who were voted in, but don't really compare to some of the all-time greats.
I've seen many discussions that mention creating an "inner circle" for ATG's and perhaps being a "First Ballot HOFer" is an attempt to create that separation. Dunno, but put in Alomar on his second try!

Blyleven is in a tough spot for me. I can't overlook that many wins , K's and 60 shutouts. To a certain degree, that is domination over his opponents (the opposing team) and that's what players are supposed to do. I can live without another borderline HOFer being elected though.

As said earlier, two wrongs don't make a right...and there are MANY players already elected who were far from dominant. Bert is right on the line, and it appears the voters think so too...

I think Tim Raines and Andre Dawson (and Jim Rice for that matter) are excellent examples of players for whom you can compare HOF-eligibility to.
My rule would be, you must be BETTER than those three players, without much debate..and you are in!
If you are almost as good as Rice, Dawson and Raines (toss in MANY others on either side of the line), or just slightly better ...you are out.

[kmac32]

Awesome that Dawson made it in. He is truly an all star and deserves to be in.

Kmac

[Irwin Fletcher]

I'm a big Jim Kaat fan, but he doesn't compare to Blyleven.

Kaat: 283-237, 3.45 ERA, 2461 K, 1.259 WHIP, 107 ERA+

Blyleven: 287-250, 3.31 ERA, 3701 K, 1.198 WHIP, 118 ERA+

The adjusted ERA+ number is the key. Over his career, Kaat was 7 percent better than league average in term of ERA. Blyleven was 18 percent better. That's the difference between good and really good. And, in my opinion, the difference bettween HOF and not HOF.

Ditto for Tommy John (110 ERA+)

[KNH]

Glad to see Dawson got in. It's about time. One of the reasons I would keep Blyleven out of the hall of fame is that in 22 years he was an all star only 2 times. How can you be a HOFer if you're not even somewhat regularly an all star? I believe that some of the problem is that those 3,701 strikeouts look really impressive. Before Carlton and Ryan passed Walter Johnson back in the 80's, 3,508 k's was the record. I also don't understand how guys can get so many more votes than they had the previous year. Whether somebody gets votes or not shouldn't have anything to do with who else is up for election. If there were a couple of superstars players up for election this year, Dawson would probably have fell short again and Blyleven and Alomar would have missed by a lot more. Either a guy deserves it or he doesn't. How can voters vote "no" one year and "yes" the next? Did the player do something in that year to deserve the vote they didn't get the previous year?

[barrysloate]

There are clearly politics involved in the voting process, and I would think that even in a very weak year there is pressure to elect at least one of the candidates. What would happen to the Hall of Fame Induction Weekend if one year nobody got in? Would it be canceled?

[KNH]

Next year's ballot will include Rafael Palmeiro, Juan Gonzalez, Larry Walker, Jeff Bagwell, John Franco and Kevin Brown. This will be the year Blyleven will probably make it whether he deserves it or not. Palmeiro would have been automatic but the steroids will likely keep him out. Gonzo was great but faded away too soon. Walker's totals aren't good enough and he played in Colorado. Kevin Brown-not a chance. Franco-might be deserving. Bagwell- possibly. He should have played 1 more year, then the voters would make sure he goes in along with Biggio who is up for election in 2012.

[doug.goodman]

It would go to the Dutch guy.

[Chris Counts]

Another vote, another mockery. Congratulations to the Hawk, who in my estimation is a very deserving Hall of Famer. Just imagine if players could be inducted for receiving simply more than half of the votes possible, instead of the almost impossible to attain 75 percent. If that was the case, we'd be congratulating Alomar, Morris, Blyleven and Larkin today as well. Well, it looks like another year ranting and raving about how incompetent the selection process and its voters are.

[packs]

I'm hoping McGriff gets in some day. In my opinion he really deserves to be. 493 home runs, never a steroid suspect, and a model of consistency. He hit 30 home runs or more 7 years in a row and had 8 100 RBI seasons. His post season numbers are eye popping too. Guy should get in.

I was glad that Larkin didn't get in. To me, he never even comes close to the games greatest players and especially not at short stop. Not a HOFer to me.

Also don't think Raines deserves to get in either. I know people hate the term compiler but I can't help but think of him as one.

Alomar will get in next time no doubt. I never saw Blyleven play but I just looked up his stats. On the surface they seem very impressive. But like others, I have to ask why one of the games best pitchers of all time only managed to be recognized as a premier player in the league twice, and why he never even finished second in Cy Young voting. People say he was on bad teams, but I've looked at the teams he was on in his prime and they were 500 teams. To me, that's hardly a terrible team. Lost 17 games 4 times.

[autograf]

Anthony.....nice tongue-in-cheek 'expectorated' comment in post #4.....