Dawson only inductee..........

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Would someone please tell me again why Bert Blyleven should be in and Tommy John and Jim Kaat shouldn't be?

I'll give it a stab. In the modern era: 5th lifetime in strikeouts. 9th lifetime in shutouts. The only pitchers with more shutouts: Walter Johnson, Pete Alexander, Mathewson, Young, Plank, Spahn, Ryan, Seaver. Ie, 5 deadball pitchers, and Spahn, Ryan and Seaver. That's it. And Ryan and Seaver only had 1 more shutout apiece. He was a dominating pitcher.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

He was a dominating pitcher.

I've got nothing against Bert. He was a nice pitcher, but dominant? Not really. There's always been the assumption hanging around that he spent his entire career pitching for lousy teams. His career record is 287-250 .534. The combined teams he pitched for were 1991-1901 (I counted both team records during the years he changed mid-season) for a winning percentage of .512. If he had merely won at the same percentage as his team, he would have had 275 wins. So his domination translated to 12 extra wins in 22 years.


In 22 seasons, the teams he finished the season with, ended up in first place 3 times, second place 3 times, and third place 5 times. Not great, but not awful. He was in a race about half of the time.

To me, he's another borderline case, and sometimes, those guys don't get in.

[calvindog]

Actually, the 6.7 Ks per 9 innings ranks him 115th all-time. This is a somewhat misleading rank because there are plenty of modern relief pitchers with better ratios which has knocked a lot of great pitchers down the list. That being said, Blyleven led the league in strikeouts one time. Feller lost four years of his prime to the war and still managed to lead the league in Ks for five years. Is there any question who the better strikeout pitcher was?

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Actually, the 6.7 Ks per 9 innings ranks him 115th all-time. This is a somewhat misleading rank because there are plenty of modern relief pitchers with better ratios which has knocked a lot of great pitchers down the list. That being said, Blyleven led the league in strikeouts one time. Feller lost four years of his prime to the war and still managed to lead the league in Ks for five years. Is there any question who the better strikeout pitcher was?

Nolan Ryan. It's hard to blame Blyleven for being in same league as outlier statistical freak like Ryan for the first decade of his career.

Frank Robinson only led the league in home runs once. Do we discount his 586 lifetime? Barry Bonds only led the league twice.

He struck out over 200 batters eight times in his career. Just missed a ninth time by four strikeouts. I'm willing to bet the list of guys ahead of him on that list is pretty damn short. Without checking, I'd guess top 10 - 15.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

Nolan Ryan. It's hard to blame Blyleven for being in same league as outlier statistical freak like Ryan for the first decade of his career.

Ok, Nolan Ryan never existed. Now Blyleven led the league in Ks one time.

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

Frank Robinson only led the league in home runs once. Do we discount his 586 lifetime? Barry Bonds only led the league twice.

You can always find statistical anomalies. Frank Robinson also won a Triple Crown and won the MVP in each league. Barry Bonds was the greatest statistical player of the modern era and was clearly the best player in the league for years. Blyleven was never even remotely on this level.

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

He struck out over 200 batters eight times in his career. Just missed a ninth time by four strikeouts.

Agreed. He was a really consistent really good player. Just never great.

[Anthony S.]

Jeff,

Comparative ERA's a stat I've never checked. Will take a gander at it. I'm willing to guess there are quite a few modern relievers on that list.

Here's one more list from baseball reference ( I notice you sponsor Hal's page, no surprise there). The pitchers Blyleven is "most similar to":

Don Sutton
Gaylord Perry
Fergie Jenkins
Tommy John
Robin Roberts
Tom Seaver
Jim Kaat
Early Wynn
Phil Neikro
Steve Carlton

8 out of 10 in the Hall of Fame.

I also grew up watching baseball in the 70's and 80's, though I rarely watched the Twins or indians, or most of the teams for which Blyleven played. I felt the same way you did about him until a couple years ago, but the closer I looked, the more I liked.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

Don Sutton
Gaylord Perry
Fergie Jenkins
Tommy John
Robin Roberts
Tom Seaver
Jim Kaat
Early Wynn
Phil Neikro
Steve Carlton

8 out of 10 in the Hall of Fame.

I think this is a fair list for him to be compared to although Carlton, Jenkins and Seaver are clearly better than the rest of this bunch. Certainly Blyleven can hang with Neikro, Sutton, Perry and the rest.