Even the so called good guys...ugly hobby?

[Exhibitman]

Potomac, I hardly consider the situation to be one of not fighting back. By outing the situation, John has placed everyone on notice of it. Until someone comes forward with a specific item that they suspect has been tampered by Kevin, it is all for discussion. If that person surfaces and decides to act on it, we have a whole different ballgame. As far as respect goes, it is irrelevant; validation by others is something craved only by people with insufficient self-esteem. Which is probably why you never hear highly educated, highly successful people whine about being disrespected yet you hear losers in prison who justify hacking someone to death by claiming they had been "dissed."

Todd, as far as whether Kevin's admission stands for anything, I may not have been clear but I did not want to be pedantic either. I assumed that it was understood that the context was one of a civil case being brought and going to trial. My point was that if I was representing someone in a case against a card seller who had stated that he doctored cards and foisted them on the public, the admission would be a very strong one, the sort of evidence that leads a jury to accept the opinion of the expert I retained to prove that the card in question had been doctored.

As far as fraud goes, yes, we have some in cards. As we do in most any other field where money matters. When we see it, we should try to correct it. Our best tool for that here is outing the scammer and letting everyone in on the dirty little secret.

[Potomac Yank]

Adam, I hear what you say, there is much validity in what you say ... But!
I think you've been away from NYC too long.
When I say respect, I'm not talking about respect towards one individual.
I'm talking about a potential scumbags mind set.
Right now, the potential slimeballs of the world know this.
They know that going after a score in cardboard land, is not that much of a gamble.
From past experience they know that if they give the money back, God will forgive them.

The respect of which I speak of is ... conveying to the lice that the people in cardboard land are NOT a forgiving lot, and that we will get their little asses.
Simply stated ... Tip Toeing Through the Tulips, never gets the job done.

If we succeed in getting through to a few scumbags ... It's a start.
When will we Start?

Stay well.

[nolemmings]

but, if not pedantic, then your comments were rather unncessary, were they not? I submit there is no legal scholarship needed to conclude that a civil or criminal case is stronger with a "confession" than without it. That's what we're talking about here, either a confession or nearly so.

You and Jeff wrap this situation up in legal terms and scenarios where a jury would be damning and the particular evidence of such strength that the case would be a lock. My point is there is no legal case and won't be when all you have is a so-called admission. IF the remaining 90% of your case were established--you know, tedious things like an actual victim, a specific card, and a connection with Kevin, then I agree the statement could be the final nail in the proverbial coffin. I think the non-legal term for that scenario is Duh. Without those other elements proved in the least, though, I think it's unfortunate to couch your comments in terms of how this would play out in court.

[Peter_Spaeth]

They may not have the coffin but at least they have the nail.

[Potomac Yank]

Adam, I hear what you say, there is much validity in what you say ... But!
I think you've been away from NYC too long.
When I say respect, I'm not talking about respect towards one individual.
I'm talking about a potential scumbags mind set.
Right now, the potential slimeballs of the world know this.
They know that going after a score in cardboard land, is not that much of a gamble.
From past experience they know that if they give the money back, God will forgive them.

The respect of which I speak of is ... conveying to the lice that the people in cardboard land are NOT a forgiving lot, and that we will get their little asses.
Simply stated ... Tip Toeing Through the Tulips, never gets the job done.

If we succeed in getting through to a few scumbags ... It's a start.
When will we Start?

Stay well.